Magnum

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Posts by Magnum

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  23

  How will history treat Judge Rutherford?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  mark jones writes:.

  how will history treat joseph rutherford?.

  like ben gorden has said, it would depend on who’s looking back.

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  Magnum

  St George of England, a few years ago a 35ish JW female approached me in a parking lot and attempted to give me a tract. I mentioned Fred Franz to her and found out that she had never even heard of him. That was astonishing to me. He was of the most influential figures in JW history (in the top three or four), and she had never even heard of him.
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  10

  message for belbab

  by hellenback in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i know 2 names of elders at bromley cong robert slee who was spitting image of rutherford and gerald archer.

  another was peter king..

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  Magnum

  Always interested to find out what happened to the people I remember

  Yeah, me too. Sometimes I google names out of curiosity just to see if I can find info. For example, I'd love to be able to find out about the few remaining JWs whom I knew decades ago and who were eagerly anticipating the end back then. Are they still JWs? What are they thinking now that the old JWdom is gone and it's 2024 with no end?
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  22

  Radical shake up

  by Mikejw in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  imagine if all the governing body resigned and a new set of brothers came in and said we are very very sorry for all those who have been disfellowshipped and disassociated over the years.

  we know many mistakes have been made.

  we are really genuinely sorry to all those who have been hurt and especially those who have died and been hurt by these mistakes.

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  Magnum

  I'd say "Fuck you. Why the hell would I want to come back? You guys think I want to socialize with you... that I want to be around you... that I'm missing you and just sitting around with no life waiting for the chance to be back with you? You guys are legends in your own minds as indicated by your new ministry approach. You really think people want to have conversations with you... to just blow time and chat with you... that you're that important or in that high a place? I wasted 50 years with you. I hung around only because I thought you did know. Now, you're saying you don't know??? So, like, why would I want to come back? You still seem to think you're it - the one and only group on earth approved by God. If you are, then why would he have let you be wrong for 150 years? You're just now getting it right and apologizing? I wanted truth, and now you're basically saying you don't necessarily have it? Nah, dudes, I have a life. Don't need you; don't want you. Oh, and by the way, since you were wrong all that time, are you going to provide compensation to me for my 30 yrs as a fulltime JW slaving for no pay and altering my whole course of life for something that was wrong? Go fuck off."

  P.S. That whole radical shake-up thing is based on an assumption that JWdom is at its core approved by God and just needs to be refined. Why would anyone make such an assumption? So, they've been wrong for 150yrs, but the religion is still the one and only true one? How about They've been wrong for 150 years, so that shows they're not the one and only true religion or not a true religion at all?

  That shake-up thinking is typical JW thinking. No matter how wrong they've been in the past, they still claimed they had the truth at that time, one GB member in the past even referring to such as "current truth" because that's the way they understood it at the time even though they later changed it. How effin arrogant and presumptuous and self-righteous. It's current truth just because you say it's truth?

  Nah, a real shake-up or admission would be for some real lovers of truth to take over and tell all the rank and file they've been in a deceptive, corrupt, harmful, self-serving cult.
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  40

  Dates and times

  by jhine in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  last night at my bible study group we looked at 1thessalonians ch 5 .

  we have been working through the whole letter.

  verses 1-11 start with .

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  Magnum

  It's all about just being ready every day because no one knows when the end will come.

  I agree.
  

  And what about vs 3? A really big deal is made about that in JW Land. My whole life I've heard about some kind of official proclamation or declaration of peace and security by governments.

  However, when I really started thinking and analyzing, I realized that verse says NOTHING about a government agency or about governments. It simply says "they." It also says nothing about any kind of official declaration. JWs read it that way because they've been programmed to.

  Following is, to me, the most reasonable explanation/meaning of the verse. It just parallels the words attributed to Jesus at Mt 24:37-39. People in general ("they") would be saying peace and security in that they would just be going through their daily lives doing normal, everyday things thinking/saying everything's good (peaceful and secure) and then they'd be caught off guard.

  That, to me, is a reasonable explanation that fits the point Paul was making and fits with the rest of Scripture.
  
  
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  23

  How will history treat Judge Rutherford?

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  mark jones writes:.

  how will history treat joseph rutherford?.

  like ben gorden has said, it would depend on who’s looking back.

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  Magnum

  Don't know the answer to your question, but thanks for the post. Great material; I'm saving it for my files.

  slimboyfat makes an interesting point. I think the answer to his question is that JWs are just so insignificant. Mormondom may be small like JWdom, but it is more interesting to the public because some Mormons are well-known. There are well-known politicians, athletes, entertainers, etc. who are Mormons. They have a university. They don't encourage the rank and file to simply be tradesmen or janitors. They simply are more interesting. Can you imagine a university in JW Land?

  JWs are legends in their own minds. They think this new preaching method (listening, showing love, not having a rehearsed sermon) is so wonderful. Well, by far, most people couldn't care less about them and don't want to have conversations with them. They are simply viewed as oddball nuisances. I just don't think their is enough interest by the public to move anybody to spend time, effort, etc. producing a bio of Rutherford.

  Edit: I was just thinking. I guess there are/were some well-known JWs, too (Prince, Michael Jackson, etc.), but maybe the public wasn't aware that they were JWs? I don't know. I still just think that Mormondom is more mainstream because of such people as Mitt Romney and because of the university (Brigham Young University).
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  144

  Hailstone message AND everyone will be saved? Questions

  by slimboyfat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i’ve not been paying close attention to watchtower developments, but talking to a jw yesterday it occurred to me the society (yes, still use that term - old school) have been sending out mixed messages in recent years.

  from what i gather, a few years ago the gb announced that during the great tribulation jws would be required to preach a “hailstone message of judgement” which involved telling people it was too late for them to repent and they were definitely going to be destroyed.

  there were hints that this could be very soon, “any day now” preaching could stop and the hailstone message come in, kind of thing.

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  Magnum

  It is confusing and unclear now. I used to call myself an expert on JWism, but no more. I wouldn't even try to keep up with it and waste brain space anymore. I would no longer know which types and antitypes they still consider to be valid, what the locusts represent, the meaning of Eze 9:4, what parts of the Revelation Climax book they still consider to be valid, etc.

  I, too, am curious about what they now say about the hailstone message, though.
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  21

  Field Service

  by Ding in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  for those who are still attending meetings, what is happening at your congregation regarding field service now that reporting of hours is no longer required?.

  are the elders pushing for people to go out in service anyway?.

  what is the response?.

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  Magnum

  Jeffro: That [the PR firm thing] certainly seems to be the case.

  Jeffro, do you remember how we discussed that on this forum maybe ten or twelve years ago? A lot us really thought the org had hired a PR firm back then. The changes were so drastic that I remember one poster (I think it was anddon'tcallmeshirley) wrote "What's next - congregation softball teams?" The org was morphing into a softer, more mainstream religion, seemingly trying to be more relevant and appealing. Along came broadcasting, cartoons, news, a talk show, pop-like music with videos, etc. I wish we could find some kind of evidence if they did hire a PR firm.

  And now, no more reporting time and this new softer approach to the ministry.
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  21

  Field Service

  by Ding in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  for those who are still attending meetings, what is happening at your congregation regarding field service now that reporting of hours is no longer required?.

  are the elders pushing for people to go out in service anyway?.

  what is the response?.

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  Magnum

  Ding: The GB must not believe their own teaching about the imminence of Armageddon.
  If they did, wouldn't they be doubling down instead of making all these changes?

  There have to be some higher-ups who know something is wrong. The JW religion of today is nothing like it was in, for example, the 80's when I was probably at my most zealous point.

  The "preaching" work is just pathetic. Think about this... if the dam is at the head of the valley is about to break any time and you know it, would you inform people in the manner of the JW preaching work now? According to their theology, billions of lives are at stake - BILLIONS! And they're going to just set up a few lame carts with some lame literature that doesn't really warn people at all? And now, they're just going to focus on listening to people and talking about whatever the people want to talk about instead of giving them a strong witness?

  What about the Israelites' marching around Jericho on the seventh day? What about the bold, fearless preaching of the apostles in the city gates, etc.? JW preaching is nothing like any of that.

  I've recently seen a number of YouTube videos by conservative types like Charlie Kirk. Now, please forget the socio-politics; that's not my point; my point is their method. They set up tents on college campuses and other places and welcome the deep questions and challenges and face them head on, unhesitatingly. Whether you agree or disagree with them, wouldn't you admit that they at least give evidence of strongly believing their own stuff and are willing to attempt to back it up? Now, compare that with JWs at carts. They will pack up and leave when presented with material from their own publications. They get looks on their faces indicating insecurity.

  If JWs were who they claim to be, then their preaching should be getting bolder, louder, clearer as the end they foretell supposedly gets closer; yet it's getting weaker, softer, muddier.

  That, to me, is one of the main indicators that they could not be who they claim to be. There is no possible way that a just god could judge humans adversely based on their response to the faint, weak, puny, cowardly, unclear preaching of JWs.

  P.S. And who's just so idle and so lacking a life that they want to have a random lame conversation with JWs? I'm sure there are a few, and those are the only types the JW religion will attract from now on - the lonely, the societal misfits, the unstable, etc. Gone are the days when the religion attracted the thinking, smarter, stable types.

  JWs are legends in their own minds. Do they really think people want to have conversations with them? They are clueless cult nobodies.
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  7

  Appreciation post for Pam Grier

  by LoveUniHateExams in

  1. social
  2. entertainment

  yeah, i love pam grier.. she was great in jackie brown (1997).. and she can sing very well, too.. .

  enjoy .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwmyb6nii48.

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  Magnum

  Hey! Been missing you. I thought you might have left. Glad I was wrong.
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  40

  The Reasoning Book

  by Magnum in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the book reasoning from the scriptures was released in the 1980's, and it was used at virtually every meeting for service, every service meeting, and every theocratic ministry school meeting thereafter.

  many jws had copies bound together with their bibles.

  it was huge in jw land back then.. at that time, with the reasoning book, jws were trained to keep conversations going in spite of objections, to almost stick their feet in people's doors to keep conversations going, to defend "the truth," to argue doctrine, etc.. compare the situation today with that of the 80's.

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  Magnum

  Cofty, I felt the same way. I hated it, too, and never used it. It's ironic that I felt I was doing something wrong by not using it; I felt guilty for actually knowing the Bible and not using the Reasoning book. I sometimes felt compelled to pull the book out just to show obedience (but didn't), knowing all the while that I could answer and reason better without it.