Posts by Magnum

52

Stagnant JW growth at international convention

by kneehighmiah in

jw
friends

so at the international convention 235 were baptized.

the attendance was 34k.

that's resents less than 1% its about .6%.

Magnum

AndDon'tCallMeShirley:

Ironically, when a person becomes an adult and wants to leave the WT, or at least questions some of its teachings, suddenly that person is incapable of doing their own thinking or of making such an important decision all on their own.

An adult who makes an informed, rational decision based on knowledge and experience will be punished for doing so. A 5 year-old making a lifelong commitment in ignorance is considered by WT to be wise.

That is a really profoundly serious point. On another thread (maybe about cleaning at a convention or something like that), it was mentioned that those 16 and under (or something like that) could only help in convention cleaning if accompanied by an adult. Somebody (sorry don't remember who it was) commented and said something like "Just think about it. A 15-year-old is not old enough to clean bathrooms on his own, yet he's old enough to have the knowledge, experience, understanding, reasoning ability, discernment, etc. necessary to make the important decision to get baptized and sign his life away to an organization."

90

PEER PRESSURE!!! I gave in to Pioneering during August...I feel dirty...

by stuckinarut2 in

ok, i'll admit it...i am weak.... as everyone knows, the pressure to "pioneer" during "the most momentous, awesome, amazing, centenary anniversay of jesus invisble kigdom rule, & distribute tracts about a dodgy website" campaign is very strong at the moment.... also, many will have read my threads about the extreme views and expectations in our cong for "all appointed men to pioneer" etc..... every elder and ms and their families have been announced as pioneering....i mean everyone's name was read out except mine..... i was not going to do it, as i do not believe anyone should be forced...(and of course its the last thing on earth i would rather do anyway since learning ttatt).

but i am not quite ready to make the break yet, so i realised that i would stand out more if i didnt put in a form to pioneer.

yes it would make me more conspicious, and make fading harder to do...it would bring more heat on me if i didnt pioneer.. so i gave in and submitted a form.... now, of course, i'm only going to make sure i'm seen at the key field service groups etc...but then go and do something more interesting...like count blades of grass..... ahh....i feel hypocritical to myself now......

Magnum

Quarterback & stuckinarut2 - I like the assignment jam gave you. Let us know what it's like in the field now. What are the reactions at the doors, etc.?

52

Stagnant JW growth at international convention

by kneehighmiah in

jw
friends

so at the international convention 235 were baptized.

the attendance was 34k.

that's resents less than 1% its about .6%.

Magnum

DATA-DOG: I honestly cannot imagine anyone remaining loyal once 2020 rolls around

I can't, either. That's one reason I find it so interesting to watch the situation and keep up with what's going on; I want to see what's going to happen.

My wife's been saying she thinks they're going to "drop the 2034/120 year nu-light". I kind of think so, too.

52

Stagnant JW growth at international convention

by kneehighmiah in

jw
friends

so at the international convention 235 were baptized.

the attendance was 34k.

that's resents less than 1% its about .6%.

Magnum

AndDon'tCallMeShirley - good question; it is laughable. Seriously, though, the first one I really remember is the one that stated that individuals of the generation had to be at least ten years old in 1914 in order to be able to recognize the sign of the last days and that the generation could be, at most, 80 years. So that one "expired" in 1984. Then they started saying that the members of the generation could be born in 1914. So that bought another ten years - extending the limit to 1994. We know what happened shortly after that - another change.

Even though the pre-1995 generation doctrine made more sense to me, it, too, didn't really make sense because 80 years is not a generation; it's a lifespan. And a lifespan can cover several generations.

52

Stagnant JW growth at international convention

by kneehighmiah in

jw
friends

so at the international convention 235 were baptized.

the attendance was 34k.

that's resents less than 1% its about .6%.

Magnum

ruderedhead: Shirley, I was a d2d convert, and the cog. I was in at the time had 3 more(women) who were also d2d converts. I knew of 1 other in another cong. But that was back in the mid 80's!

Do you think that was normal for the time, or were we just guillible housewives w children? I think today most people will research easily on the web before getting involved, and I know I personally today would show them the door after showing them how misguided their beleifs are!

I think it was more normal for that time. Back then, the religion seemed more scholarly and dignified, and all the crazy, deceptive history was hidden. Also, there was the old generation teaching which made far more sense than the new one. With the old teaching at that time, there was the excitement generated by the belief that the 1914 generation time period was up, so the end must be near.

Now there is no such excitement, JWdom is dumbed down, the crazy history is easily accessible, the unprovable doctrines are easily challenged, etc. So now it would be abnormal to find so many who came in from the field. You yourself said that you wouldn't have come in if your exposure to JWdom had been at this point in time.

So the days of bringing in people from the field are, I believe, largely over - at least in the developed world. The ones they might get are for the most part going to be from the bottom of society - the less educated, the socially awkward, etc.

sir82: I'm virtually certain that the number of English-speaking JWs in the US has been decreasing for at least 5 years, maybe more. The nominal growth in the US comes from foreign-language congregations, primarily Spanish. And even that is slowing down.

Even though there are still small increases in most nations, I'm convinced we'll see gross reductions in the number of publishers in the US & all of the 1st world before the decade is out.

I've been thinking the same thing.

14

Watchtower No Blood Card

by Lee Elder in

new article on ajwrb:.

http://ajwrb.org/medicine/watchtower-no-blood-card.

lee.

Magnum

Thank you. You've helped me a lot the past few years.

90

PEER PRESSURE!!! I gave in to Pioneering during August...I feel dirty...

by stuckinarut2 in

ok, i'll admit it...i am weak.... as everyone knows, the pressure to "pioneer" during "the most momentous, awesome, amazing, centenary anniversay of jesus invisble kigdom rule, & distribute tracts about a dodgy website" campaign is very strong at the moment.... also, many will have read my threads about the extreme views and expectations in our cong for "all appointed men to pioneer" etc..... every elder and ms and their families have been announced as pioneering....i mean everyone's name was read out except mine..... i was not going to do it, as i do not believe anyone should be forced...(and of course its the last thing on earth i would rather do anyway since learning ttatt).

but i am not quite ready to make the break yet, so i realised that i would stand out more if i didnt put in a form to pioneer.

yes it would make me more conspicious, and make fading harder to do...it would bring more heat on me if i didnt pioneer.. so i gave in and submitted a form.... now, of course, i'm only going to make sure i'm seen at the key field service groups etc...but then go and do something more interesting...like count blades of grass..... ahh....i feel hypocritical to myself now......

Magnum

I agree with the comments above. Don't be too hard on yourself. You know your situation and circumstances better than anyone else. Just be glad that you're not one of the completely assimilated, totally hypnotized and brainwashed drones who can't recognize all the things that we see wrong with the JW religion.

11

Jehovahs Witnesses and New Light

by smiddy in

charles taze russell was chosen by god jehovah to reveal to mankind the way to salvation in this time of the end.. charles taze russell embarks on a public speaking program that takes him all over the world with him giving lectures in many countrys .. my question to jehovahs witnesses : was that holy spirit , inspired revelations that he gave ?

was that new light from jehovah ?

new truths ?.

Magnum

BluesBrother - it irks me the way they use terminology like "refinenements in our understanding" and "adjustments in our understanding". Why don't they say things like "corrections of our wrong teachings" or "corrections of our errors"? Their wording is calculated and deliberately chosen so as not to give the impression they were wrong.

11

Jehovahs Witnesses and New Light

by smiddy in

charles taze russell was chosen by god jehovah to reveal to mankind the way to salvation in this time of the end.. charles taze russell embarks on a public speaking program that takes him all over the world with him giving lectures in many countrys .. my question to jehovahs witnesses : was that holy spirit , inspired revelations that he gave ?

was that new light from jehovah ?

new truths ?.

Magnum

I sure wish JWs could recognize this. However, most are absolutely clueless as to JW history. Most of the JWs in my area probably wouln't even recoginze the names "Knorr" and "Franz", and if they did even slightly recognize them, they wouldn't have a clue who the people were.

To an intelligent thinking person , old light means something was false , new light means you have a new interpretation of what you formally beleived was wrong.

I've been thinking about that a lot lately - that JWs can't bring themselves to use the word "wrong" relative to themselves.

JW: "Isn't this new light wonderful?"

Magnum: "What about the old light? Was it wrong?"

JW: [Deer in headlights look. Operating system crashes. System message: "Warning - that does not compute."]

55

for those still "in" what's the mood

by lastchance in

in my area the general sense is bleak.

many are in survival mode.

even at the convention the appearance of the majority was unhappy and tired.

Magnum

"What's the mood?" Good question. I've been wondering that. I would love to be able to sample the mood in various places. I'm really more interested in the moods of old-timers and any who are intelligent. knowledgeable, and reasonable. The moods of the brainless drones, to me, shouldn't even be considered since they're clueless.

lastchance: In my area the general sense is bleak. Many are in survival mode. Even at the convention the appearance of the majority was unhappy and tired. Even with all this "special activity" there is no excitement or enthusiasm. My friends in neighboring halls complain that the lack of love is so overwhelming. I know many here believe this organization is here to stay but from what I see and hear its just one scandal away from a massive decline.

Interesting. I, too, feel the org is close to a massive decline.

Pete Zahut: From the youtube videos one would get the impression that being at the conventions was like being in Disneyland. We all know that part is seeing old friends and has nothing to do with excitment about worshiping God or learning Religious truths.

My feeling is that there is an anti-climactic feeling happening as they return to the day to day grind of meetings and service and real life in general.

It's hard to keep the fantasy alive after another assembly has come and gone and nothing has changed. This time next year it will have all faded into the past.

Also interesting.

wallsofjericho: no one ever talks about "theocratic" stuff because nobody seems to really care

I think, too, that the reason they don't talk about theocratic stuff, especially deeper stuff, is that they're incapable and the org itself has ceased to "talk about" such.

DesirousOfChange: They no longer know doctrine nor do they care. They might as well be Catholic or Baptists or whatever other religion of their parents. It's just their "Community" of friends that they grew up with. They can give the schpiel -- all the buzzwords -- but they don't know anything about the past history of the religion nor even the present doctrine.

100% agree.

kneehighmiah: The administration and chairmans offices spend most of the program sleeping, talking and eating. No joke the CO was asleep in the chairmans office during the convention where I had a part on the program. It's a country club atmosphere behind the scenes.

I know exactly what you mean. Experienced it many times. It truly is a country club atmosphere.

Julia Orwell: A lot of jws seem to be like most Christiansin that they live normal lives and just go to church on a Sunday. They aren't excited and zealous, they just do it because they believe in god and go for community reasons and to show a bit of faith.

I feel the same way.

EdenOne: what I see is the brothers tired, demotivated, going through the motions, no real spark anymore ... the KH is mostly a social club where they meet their friends

I see that, too.