Oh boy this is going to be a long thread.
objectivetruth
JoinedPosts by objectivetruth
-
114
What is truth?
by Heisenberg inwell, i have been lurking on this site for several months and i recently decided to join as a member.
i have made several observations and would like to make a few comments.. first, i am perplexed by the attitude of many on this site that are either former or active (but apostate) jws.
they seem to have a strong hatred for the wts and also for rank and file jws.
-
-
-
15
An email from a Jw "friend" to me (accusing me of apostasy) a few months back.
by objectivetruth ini was going through old email and i came across the below email from a former acquaintance of mine who is a jw.
when we were both jw's, we were both pretty liberal in our beliefs.
its quite interesting how cognitive dissonance kicks in, for many & not too much for others.
-
-
objectivetruth
I was going through old email and I came across the below email from a former acquaintance of mine who is a JW. When we were both JW's, we were both pretty liberal in our beliefs. Its quite interesting how Cognitive Dissonance kicks in, for Many & not too much for others. Needless to say, my views were genuinely Liberal, his were more Fascist. :
"Let me start off by saying that was the first email that felt real and I appreciate that. It was refreshing! And I would agree that we don't have total freedom of speech as JW's and that can be really tough for someone in a situation like yours. But to be honest i'm glad we don't. We are not the faithful slave nor are all 8 million of us to dispense food at the proper time. Or if you have some issue with the understanding of that scripture any reasonable person would agree that leadership is needed in an organization. I am happy to have the guidance from the governing body. I have gotten to know many of them well and they are good men. Humble, loving and wise. They have earned the respect of many honest hearted individuals. And they were tough enough expel any of those who can do great damage to others faith. (that too can be really hard. Many lost good friends during the apostasy of the 70's)
I am fully convinced that the preaching work is the work that should be going on through Jah's true organization. We are the only group truly doing that. Wholehearted, unified. The trinity, hellfire, preaching, where the dead are, living on the earth, that Jah is not ok with fornication and adultery and then just saying sorry to go out and do it again next week. These are things were unified on that do matter and others are not. Were grasping for truth in the other areas sometimes needing brighter light as time goes on. Don't you think Jah will bless our governing body to find it as he see's fit in time over you, or me or some disgruntled witness trying to erode someone's faith because he cant just leave quietly and start his own organization. If someone believes we don't have the truth fine but we are not evil or brain washed or manipulated. We don't allow people to start sects within our organization or change things as they see fit. makes sense to me... Asking questions is fine and if you had come to the conclusions you came to without looking at all the junk you have been i would have patted you on the back. Just good deep research. What changes that is when you take ideas that are meant to be poison from someones mind thats not your own and spread those to others. That is what you have started doing and weather you realize it or not that is going down the road to apostasy. Maybe you rolled your eyes or feel thats exactly what i've been trained to say but tell me are you trying to help me by giving me ideas contrary to the organization from apostates. I am happy where I am at. If i meet someone in the ministry and ask them questions contrary to there beliefs and they say hey thank you but i'm truly happy with my organization thats the end of our conversation. Also what have you offered me? Why do you feel you have the truth? Did you even have more than just you doing the research. Jesus said where 2 or more gathered he would be there right... If someone wants to leave our organization we don't disfellowship them. Were not even suppose to disfellowship if someone is practicing gross wrongdoing as long as they don't associate or claim to be part of the organization (which is done just so that they are not corrosive or hurt gods spirit on the organization if they are like sleeping around or whatever) If you have issues that you cant reconcile no one is holding that against you. We love you as our friend and won't shun you just because your as we put it "spiritually week". Its the spirit of trying to share potentially corrosive material with any witness that is the issue. You are not the one we follow and have no organization with any rich spiritual history. At the end of the day that matters. If you do what Russell did and start something that makes Jah use you as his channel than I will listen and follow what you say. Until then keep your spiritual truths you learn from apostates to yourself and when you truly come up with a question that is from {you} lets have an interesting conversation that is upbuilding about it. Or better yet bring it to your elders or patterson if its potentially corrosive to someones faith. I hope you can get through this and be part of something great again. If not I won't say you'll die at armageddon. I don't have an issue preaching that to people because the people I trust tell me it current truth. My personal opinion maybe Jah hasn't shown us the full truth on that, maybe other good people will still get a change or be resurrected or whatever. Maybe he has a good reason for letting us believe present truth as Jesus must have had a good reason for letting the apostles think the end would come in there day. Either way I keep that idea to myself when I give talks at the hall and have no issue continuing to do so. I also have no problem telling it to my friends because its in good spirit and not trying to put doubt in there minds about the organization. Also it came from me and not some chat room. Hopefully you understand what I mean. Your a good person buddy and I know Jah cares for you. We all care for you too. You've become one of my oldest friends. Please think about this and humble yourself. your friend." - End Email "False friends are like our shadow, keeping close to us while we walk in the sunshine, but leaving us the instant we cross into the shade."
-
-
-
objectivetruth
Unless, Used in moderation. (Of Course)
-
-
-
objectivetruth
Not a Good Combination.
-
7
My "Un-Witnessing" Comments for this Upcoming Sunday's Watchtower.
by objectivetruth ini won't be there (fortunately) but perhaps my warm encouragement and hard work, in preparing these comments will help someone, who has the burden of attending the meetings, give a good un-witness.. 3. while on earth, how did jesus follow his fathers example?.
answer - jesus at john 9:4 gave us a very important reminder, he said "we must do the works of the one who sent me while it is day; the night is coming when no man can work.
" the figurative night that jesus was likely referencing was amos 5:18 where it says "woe to those who yearn for the day of jehovah!
-
-
objectivetruth
Lol I know honesty, that's the saD but funny part of it.
-
7
My "Un-Witnessing" Comments for this Upcoming Sunday's Watchtower.
by objectivetruth ini won't be there (fortunately) but perhaps my warm encouragement and hard work, in preparing these comments will help someone, who has the burden of attending the meetings, give a good un-witness.. 3. while on earth, how did jesus follow his fathers example?.
answer - jesus at john 9:4 gave us a very important reminder, he said "we must do the works of the one who sent me while it is day; the night is coming when no man can work.
" the figurative night that jesus was likely referencing was amos 5:18 where it says "woe to those who yearn for the day of jehovah!
-
-
objectivetruth
I won't be there (Fortunately) but perhaps my warm encouragement and hard work, in preparing these comments will help someone, who has the Burden of attending the meetings, give a good Un-Witness.
3. “While on earth, how did Jesus follow his Father’s example?
Answer - Jesus At John 9:4 gave us a very important reminder, he said "We must do the works of the One who sent me while it is day; the night is coming when no man can work." The figurative Night that Jesus was likely referencing was Amos 5:18 where it says "Woe to those who yearn for the day of Jehovah! What, then, will the day of Jehovah mean for you? It will be darkness, and not light." This Day of Jehovah will last 1,000 Years according to 2 Peter 3:8 & Psalm 90:4 Peter says "one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day." - With this 1,000 year day of darkness now closer then ever, we are wise to heed Jesus advice to do Jehovah's work now.
4-6 (b).What do all of God’s work assignments for humans have in common?”
Answer - As the Paragraph brings out, our assignments from Jehovah may vary, depending on the current needs of His purpose. Regardless of the work assignment, we do well to always remember one assignment which Does not change, he brought this assignment out in Leviticus 19:34 " The foreigner who resides with you should become to you like a native among you; and you must love him as yourself," The unchangeability of this Assignment is brought out by Jesus at Matthew 5:44 "Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you,"
7/8 “(a) Describe the work that Christians today are privileged to do.”
Answer - We are so Privileged to have a Worldwide brotherhood to assist us with the Building Work today.. We are privileged to Participate in Building Kingdom Halls, Assembly Halls, or Even Bethel! The Servant of Jehovah Solomon, also had a great privilege to take part in a Building work of a Places meant for Worship the house of Jehovah. Solomon did not have the help of a worldwide Brotherhood like we have today, he came up with a solution to finish the work though,. We see his solution at 1 Kings 9:21 "those whom the Israelites had been unable to devote to destruction—were conscripted by Solʹo·mon for forced labor as slaves until this day" we are truly blessed to share in the Same work which faithful men of old shared in.
10. What organizational adjustments have been made in recent times?”
Answer - In recent years, there have been some changes In Organizational Matters, and Re-Structuring for different Branches, at first the Brothers & Sisters involved may be nervous, but they are wise to trust in Jehovah and his word, the Paragraph provides the perfect scripture Ecclesiastes 7:7,8 it says "But oppression can drive the wise one into madness, and a bribe corrupts the heart. 8 Better is the end of a matter than its beginning. Better to be patient than to be haughty in spirit." “
14, 15. (a) How have many shown that they cherish the privilege of working with Jehovah, whatever that work may be?”
Answer - As we saw in paragraph 8 "we may initially lack full understanding of the reasons for carrying out our assigned work” This may remind us of Abrahams predicament, on one hand he knew that Jehovah viewed Sacrificing ones child in the Fire to God as Detestable, as Deuteronomy 12:31 states, but on the other hand he was asked to Sacrifice his son in the Fire to God. We can follow Abrahams Example by following all instructions given to us by By Jehovah, through the Organization, even if they at first don't make sense.
19. What future prospect does Jehovah hold out for us?”
Answer - After Moses instructed the People of Gods commands in the Mosaic Law he reminded them at Deuteronomy 30:11 "Now this commandment that I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it beyond your reach." And in verse 19 he told them that if they followed his commands they would Live. The Israelites did not follow the Law, because it was not made to be followed, and so they Died. We as Jehovahs People are not under law we under grace, and have the Opportunity of everlasting life, if we have been working with God we will Live!
-
3
When you Create your own Bible, it is Much easier to convince of your Lies.
by objectivetruth inthe word in question is the hebrew word mishneh meaning "a double, copy, second" (http://strongsnumbers.com/hebrew/4932.htm) this word is a very specific word, which implies a double portion, or twice as much.. it is numerical and precise.. the new world translation translates this word as double in the below 2 scriptures :.
isaiah 61:7 "instead of shame you will have a double portion, and instead of humiliation they will shout joyfully over their share.yes, they will possess a double (mishneh) portion in their land.
everlasting rejoicing will be theirs.
-
-
objectivetruth
The word in question is the Hebrew word מִשְׁנֵ֤ה mish·neh meaning "a double, copy, second" (http://strongsnumbers.com/hebrew/4932.htm) This word is a very specific word, which Implies a Double Portion, or Twice as Much.. It is Numerical and Precise.
The New World Translation Translates this word as Double in the Below 2 Scriptures :
Isaiah 61:7 "Instead of shame you will have a double portion, And instead of humiliation they will shout joyfully over their share.Yes, they will possess a double (mish·neh) portion in their land. Everlasting rejoicing will be theirs." (The Watchtower applies this Scripture to the "Double" blessings that the Faithful & Discreet Slave will receive because of their "Humiliating" persecution, when they were Imprisoned in 1919. Interestingly this Double Portion of blessings, starts around 1914 according to the WT. (See http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/lv/r1/lp-e/0/20413)
Genesis 43:12 "Take double (mish·neh) the money with you; and also take back the money that was returned in the mouth of your bags.+ Maybe it was a mistake." (The New World Translation also translates the word properly here)
Now See Jeremiah 16:18 in the ESV Translation.. "But first I will doubly (mish·neh) repay their iniquity and their sin, because they have polluted my land with the carcasses of their detestable idols, and have filled my inheritance with their abominations.”
Compare the NWT Version Jeremiah 16:18 "First, I will repay the full amount (mish·neh) due for their error and their sin,For they have profaned my land with the lifeless figures* of their disgusting idolsAnd have filled my inheritance with their detestable things."
In common language "full amount" can mean the same, as "double" however in a Prophetic sense it Absolutely does not work. Why would the Faithful & Discreet Slave purposely mis-translate a Scripture like this though, which obviously applied to God's punishment upon the Israelites?
A quote from the Watchtower's "Old Light" makes the Motive clear. "To our understanding of the Word, Israel's "double" of time was reached in 1878 A.D. from which time thirty seven years of rising in favor will bring them to the year 1915 A.D., to New Covenant conditions promised them through Jeremiah xxxi., 31, compare Romans, xi, 25-32." - ("Jewish Hopes" Watchtower Bible & Tract Society 1910 http://wtarchive.svhelden.info/archive/en/publications/1910_CR_Jewish_Hopes.pdf)
Notice how the Watchtower viewed 1878 as the completion of Double Punishment from God upon the Israelites. (Interestingly 1878 was the Year of "Petah Tikva" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petah_Tikva or "Opening of Hope") And 37 Years later was according to The 1910 Watchtower Organization, the Restoration of The New Covenant towards Natural Israel! One can see why this may cause some confusion now, seeing that the Current Governing Body, claim that they are the "Spiritual" seed of Abraham "Spiritual Israel"
There is Much More to this Revinsionist History and Purposeful Misinterpration, but It's Clear what their Motive Is.
To further verify that this Translation was Intentional see Isaiah 40:2 "“Speak to the heart of Jerusalem, And proclaim to her that her compulsory service has been fulfilled, That her guilt has been paid off. From the hand of Jehovah she has received a full amount ( kif·la·yim) for all her sins.” - NWT
"Speak tenderly to Jerusalem, and cry to her that her warfare is ended, that her iniquity is pardoned, that she has received from the LORD’s hand double (kif·la·yim) for all her sins." - ESV
The word here kif·la·yim has the Definition of " the double"
Here is what the Watchtower really wants to hide " “Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah," Jeremiah 31:31
-
6
Was Jesus the Nazarene The Messiah / Promised in The Hebrew Scriptures?
by objectivetruth inin seeking truth, and removing untruth, often more is removed then ever initially imagined possible.. christianity, claims that jesus was & is the messiah.
this claim is primarily based on the writings of the greek scriptures.. throughout history, god has given signs to people, in order for them to believe.
never has he become upset with an individual asking for a sign.. some individuals such as moses asked for multiple signs.
-
-
objectivetruth
In seeking Truth, and Removing Untruth, Often more is Removed then ever initially Imagined Possible.
Christianity, Claims That Jesus Was & Is The Messiah. This claim is primarily based on the Writings of The Greek Scriptures.
Throughout history, God has given signs to People, in order for them to Believe. Never has he become upset with an Individual asking for a Sign.. Some individuals such as Moses asked for Multiple Signs. With this in Mind, it s clear that God does not fault us for Expecting Proof.
There is Modern Day Proof to Support the Reliability of the Hebrew Scriptures (Namely The Re-Establishment of Israel After "2,520" Years.), however where is the Proof To Support the Greek Scriptures? Outside of the Apparent Accuracy Of Matthew 24:2 and the destruction of the Temple, I am not aware of Proof, for its Trust Worthiness.
With this in Mind..
If someone only had the Hebrew Bible in their Posession, they would conclude that The Messiah has not yet Come.
An Example of Individuals who only had the Hebrew Bible were Jesus' Followers.. At Acts 1:6 this is Very Clear " "Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?"
They would have been considering a Messianic Scripture such as Jer 23:5 " Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will raise up for David a righteous Branch, and he shall reign as king and deal wisely, and shall execute justice and righteousness in the land." - Jesus followers were expecting a King who would Establish Israel as the Kingdom of The World, which Peace and Truth would go forth From.
Without posting all of the Scriptures Which Jesus did not Fulfill, I'm interested to hear some views on "The Second Coming" discussed in The Hebrew Scriptures.. I'm interested to hear some views on The Validity of the Greek Scriptures.
-
-
-
objectivetruth
Are you going to end the suspense.. And tell us Who?
-
5
ex jws have you ever been helped by an active jw?
by Crazyguy injust wondering if anyone here that has left, faded away, no longer active in the congregation but not dfd, needed help, money, car, food etc.
and recieved some from an active jw?.
-
-
objectivetruth
Sail Away - I applaude you for doing the right thing, despite the Tendency that arises to NOT help ones that may not help us. What you are doing for your friend is true Spirituallity.