Posts by objectivetruth

122

Why doesn't god do anything tangible now?

by punkofnice in

i was always told that god did loads of stuff that was evidence of his existance.

ususally very brutal things too (b#st@rd).. jesus walked on water and raised the dead we are told.. it seems to me also that the older the story, the more exaggerated it is...y'know...talking snake......global flood.. there are those that claim god speaks to them now and they alone 'know' it.

(cuckoo!!!).

objectivetruth

No it's not intended to be Ironic - "objectivity means the state or quality of being true even outside of a subject's individual biases, interpretations, feelings, and imaginings." It does seem ironic, seeing that no one can possess truth right now.

Apog - I think that one of the things that many JW's look for is that Ahha! Moment when they feel gods Holy Spirit directly guiding them.. But it never comes, and then some are left feeling, that God doesn't exist or he exists but doesn't care about them personally.

Many JW's also feel that it is wrong to improve your self or make a decent living for your family.. "You cannot slave for 2 masters"

This is why I like Solomoms advice.. "7 Go, eat your food with rejoicing, and drink your wine with a cheerful heart, for already the true God has found pleasure in your works."

God doesn't expect us to all be "Super Disciples" preaching every second of every day.. he hopes that we do exactly what you are doing.. Taking care of yourself, taking care of your family and looking for ways to help your neighbors, and society in General.

Man likes to make things so complicated, and by doing this they completely destroy The True message of the Good News.

This time period has been Satans time period to prove his ability to rule.

Jesus died for ALL man (not all sorts of men)

The 1000 year reign all men will have the opportunity to serve God or not. They will have the same chance that Adam & Eve had.

9

SODOM AND GOMORRAH Matthew 11:24 Great Conversation Starter

by objectivetruth in

matthew 11:24 is a great scripture to use, when speaking with friends & family, that are still "blinded".

"24?consequently i say to you people, it will be more endurable for the land of sodom on judgment day than for you.".

the current understanding is that jesus was using hyperbole.

objectivetruth

Band on the Run - The issue is that witnesses DO Not discuss these types of things EVER, most witnesses most likely have never even noticed Matthew 11:20-24

The general conversation now is all Organizational and status related.

And I agree with you that all of the discussion and argument over doctrine or interpretations is Un-Christian.

Many witnesses, who have decided to leave the organization, are faced with never speaking with their friends and family again, and for this reason they have to fight for their new beliefs, and they have to figure out ways to sew seeds of doubt in their immediate circle of friends and family.

May I ask how you have kept your faith strong? Have you associated with another church group or anything?

9

SODOM AND GOMORRAH Matthew 11:24 Great Conversation Starter

by objectivetruth in

matthew 11:24 is a great scripture to use, when speaking with friends & family, that are still "blinded".

"24?consequently i say to you people, it will be more endurable for the land of sodom on judgment day than for you.".

the current understanding is that jesus was using hyperbole.

objectivetruth

Bobcat - I agree that there is only one "Judgement Day"

The main goal of the organization is to maintain current membership, and increase as we'll.

It seems to me that the GB realized how the Hell Doctrine works for other churches, so they decided to create the same type of fear inducing belief.

At a recent public Talk, the Speaker concluded his talk like this.... So it is clear to see that there are only two sides.. You are either on Gods side in his earthly organization, or you are opposed and on Satan's side.. In the world. Thos on Satans side will perish at Armageddon.

With out this scare tactic.. there numbers would without a doubt dwindle, quickly.

9

SODOM AND GOMORRAH Matthew 11:24 Great Conversation Starter

by objectivetruth in

matthew 11:24 is a great scripture to use, when speaking with friends & family, that are still "blinded".

"24?consequently i say to you people, it will be more endurable for the land of sodom on judgment day than for you.".

the current understanding is that jesus was using hyperbole.

objectivetruth

The Searcher..

This is a helpful commentary from Barnes :

Suffering the vengeance of eternal fire - The word rendered “suffering” ( ὑπέχουσαι hupechousai) means, properly, “holding under” - as, for example, the hand; then to hold toward any one, as the ear - to give attention; then it is used as denoting to hold a discourse toward or with any one, or to hold satisfaction to any one, to make atonement; and then as “undergoing, paying, or suffering punishment,” when united, as it is here, with the word δίκην dikēn(punishment, or vengeance). See “Rob. Lex.” Here it expresses the idea of undergoing punishment. The word properly agrees in the construction with “cities,” ( πόλεις poleisreferring to Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them; but the things affirmed relate to the “inhabitants” of those cities. The word “vengeance” means punishment; that is, such vengeance as the Lord takes on the guilty; not vengeance for the gratification of private and personal feeling, but like that which a magistrate appoints for the maintenance of the laws; such as justice demands. The phrase “eternal fire” is one that is often used to denote future punishment - as expressing the severity and intensity of the suffering. See the notes, Matthew 25:41 . As here used, it cannot mean that the fires which consumed Sodom and Gomorrah were literally eternal, or were kept always burning, for that was not true. The expression seems to denote, in this connection, two things:

(1)That the destruction of the cities of the plain, with their inhabitants, was as entire and perpetual as if the fires had been always burning - the consumption was absolute and enduring - the sinners were wholly cut off, and the cities forever rendered desolate; and,

(2)that, in its nature and duration, this was a striking emblem of the destruction which will come upon the ungodly. I do not see that the apostle here means to affirm that those particular sinners who dwelt in Sodom would be punished forever, for his expressions do not directly affirm that, and his argument does not demand it; but still the “image” in his mind, in the destruction of those cities, was clearly that of the utter desolation and ruin of which this was the emblem; of the perpetual destruction of the wicked, like that of the cities of the plain. If this had not been the case, there was no reason why he should have used the word “eternal” - meaning here “perpetual” - since, if in his mind there was no image of future punishment, all that the argument would have demanded was the simple statement that they were cut off by fire.

The passage, then, cannot be used to prove that the particular dwellers in Sodom will be punished forever - whatever may be the truth on that point; but that there is a place of eternal punishment, of which that was a striking emblem. The meaning is, that the case was one which furnished a demonstration of the fact that God will punish sin; that this was an example of the punishment which God sometimes inflicts on sinners in this world, and a type of that eternal punishment which will be inflicted in the next.

122

Why doesn't god do anything tangible now?

by punkofnice in

i was always told that god did loads of stuff that was evidence of his existance.

ususally very brutal things too (b#st@rd).. jesus walked on water and raised the dead we are told.. it seems to me also that the older the story, the more exaggerated it is...y'know...talking snake......global flood.. there are those that claim god speaks to them now and they alone 'know' it.

(cuckoo!!!).

objectivetruth

Paul.. I appreciate your viewpoint as we'll. I'm not much for disputing over beliefs, because as you point out, they are just that "Personal Beliefs" and there is no way to Prove any of them. I can not prove that what I believe is "The Truth" and you cannot prove that your beliefs are "The Truth"

It is summed up best by Nietzsche "You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist."

or "All things are subject to interpretation whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth."

So let Me be honest.. I wholeheartedly believe in God, but even if there were an Indisputable way to prove that God did not exist, I would build a wall around myself and I would do everything in my power to block out this .. It seems to me that life would be a miserable existence without faith in something..

Are you an Atheist now? If so, is your life void of Hope and Joy? Without faith in anything, how do you wake up every morning? I am curious, and it is not my intent to judge your point of view.

31

Bizarre exchange with witness after being away for a year..

by Dis-Member in

i few moments ago i received a strange text message.

it read:.

russian government is opening a case on banning our jw.org website in russia.

objectivetruth

As for the website.. I'm sure that some will consider this an attack from Gog on those dwelling in security or something like that.. Lol ugh

Great Point on the 3rd world countries.. if you have Spent time in a 3rd world country, you have seen the Extreme Disparity that exists, In these congregations compared to US / First World Countries.

At a recent TMS meeting the announcement was made that a new stage and an expansion to the library were "desperately" needed. Everyone agreed and voted to use $60k to renovate the hall.. I thought to my self, imagine how many places of worship could be built in A poor country for 60k USD.. Or imagine how many homes could be built for poor brothers and sisters in these countries.

Consider the loving & willing attitude that the 1st century Christians, displayed - Acts 2:44,45

"All those who became believers were together and had everything in common, 45 and they were selling their possessions and properties and distributing the proceeds to all, according to what each one needed."

When it says they were together and had everything in common, this included their Financial Assets.. He who had more gave and he who had less received.

3

Collective Guilt, how dangerous is it?

by Momma-Tossed-Me in

i will be writing a more comprehensive report on this topic but please give your thoughts on it.

i think that it has been used by some of the most ruthless dictators in history to control the public dialog within their countries.

it is a powerful tool that is very effective when paired with fear.

objectivetruth

Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. Nietzsche

29

WT Mantras / Thought Stoppers

by Ding in

i've been thinking about how the gb controls jws through the use of short phrases or scripture quotes (often partial quotes ripped out of context).. think of the sound-bite responses you know jws are going to give you in response to points you try to make to them.. ones that come to my mind immediately are:.

-- "the light gets brighter and brighter.".

-- "who, then, is the faithful and discreet slave?".

objectivetruth

"Where did you get your information from... It sounds worldly"

"the Governing Body called Paul to come back to Jerusalem to go over a matter"

17

talked to wt. conductor about sundays study

by nowwhat? in

i said i was concerned that they painted hezekiah as this champion of righteousness and how the article omitted when he paid tribute to assaria by looting the temple when he got scared.

and apparently he had an alliance with egypt, a pagan nation.

he said i was getting boged down with other references and missing the point.

objectivetruth

Whenever anyone responds with something Dumb like "Don't dig too Deep" I Remember these Scriptures.

1 John 4:1

1 Thessalonians 5:21

Galatians 1:8

9

SODOM AND GOMORRAH Matthew 11:24 Great Conversation Starter

by objectivetruth in

matthew 11:24 is a great scripture to use, when speaking with friends & family, that are still "blinded".

"24?consequently i say to you people, it will be more endurable for the land of sodom on judgment day than for you.".

the current understanding is that jesus was using hyperbole.

objectivetruth

Matthew 11:24 is a Great Scripture to use, when speaking with Friends & Family, that are still "Blinded"

"24 Consequently I say to YOU people, It will be more endurable for the land of Sod′om on Judgment Day than for you."

The Current Understanding is that Jesus was using Hyperbole. Any one with a Brain knows that "Will Be" is not "Would Be".

However the Org Massages the wording, so that people assume that its just Hyperbole.

W88 6/1 30-31 Quotes : "

A reexamination of Matthew 11:20-24, though, has brought into question whether Jesus was there discussing eternal judgment and resurrection. His point was how unresponsive the people in Chorazin, Bethsaida, and Capernaum were and how unlikely it was that they would reform even in the Judgment Day. Saying that it would be “more endurable” for Tyre/Sidon and Sodom/Gomorrah “on Judgment Day” was a form of hyperbole (exaggeration to emphasize a point) that Jesus need not have intended to be taken literally, any more than other graphic hyperboles that he used."

Hence, Jesus’ saying that it ‘would be more endurable on Judgment Day for Tyre or Sodom’ did not necessarily mean that those people will be present on Judgment Day. He could simply have been stressing how unresponsive and culpable were most in Chorazin, Bethsaida, and Capernaum. We say most because some in Capernaum did accept Christ"

It's amazing that they went so far as to use "Would be" Instead of "Will be"

Some GREAT Russel quotes on this Topic :

WT 1879

"But let us read the prophecy further. After comparing Israel with Sodom and Samaria,
and pronouncing her worse, vs. 53 says: "When I bring again the captivity [in death, all
are captives and R8 : page 8 Christ came to 'set at liberty the captives and to open the
prison doors' of the grave,] of Sodom and Samaria, then will I bring thy captives in the
midst of them." (These will be raised together.) In vs. 55 this is called "a return to
"Their Former Estate." --restitution. But some one, who cannot imagine that God really
could be so good or just, suggests God must be speaking ironically to the Jews, and
saying He would just as soon bring back the Sodomites as them, but has no notion of
either."

"Once more we read: "Jesus Christ, by the grace of God, tasted death for every man."How, Lord, we ask? If he tasted death for the one hundred and forty-three billions, andfrom other causes it becomes efficacious only to one billion, is not his death comparatively a failure?"

Also you might Compare the Aid book under "Judgement" to the Insight Book.. The Wording is Identical.. The only Difference is the Insight Book states they wont be resurrected.