Posts by objectivetruth

12

New idol replaces golden calf in WT comic book.

by Wasanelder Once in

well, what do you think?.

.

objectivetruth

Numbers 21:8,9 "Then Jehovah said to Moses: “Make a replica of a poisonous snake and put it on a pole. Then when anyone has been bitten, he will have to look at it in order to keep alive.” 9 Moses at once made a serpent of copper and put it on the pole, and whenever a serpent had bitten a man and he looked at the copper serpent, he survived."

51

The Great Crowd Catch 22

by Perry in

just had a two hour conversation with my father.

he is insistent that he will be able to enter the kingdom of god as a member of the 'great crowd'.

he did agree that only the annointed are declared righteous.

objectivetruth

Ask your father about his viewpoint on Seth,Enoch,Abraham,Isaac,Elijah,Moses and John the Baptist.

These men were all Righteous, yet they still must prove their righteousness over a 1,000 year period. (According to WT Doctrine)

you you can then ask him about Luke 13:28 " In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves cast out."

49

My Story: from JW Elder to Born Again Christian to Agnostic

by passwordprotected in

i first posted here on 3rd june 2008. at the time i was an elder, appointed the previous october, i was 36 and i was a born-in.

at the time i'd become disillusioned with the society due to the governing body's letter explaining why the book study in private homes was being abolished.

april 2008 saw me start questioning this decision, privately of course, and this eventually led me to this site, to jwfacts and to many youtube videos, all of which began to errode my faith in the leaders of the organisation.. in july 2008, having discussed my doubts with my wife, i attended the district convention, deciding to give the society one last chance to convince me it was the truth.

objectivetruth

You may enjoy reading the Bhagavad Gita. There is an underlying theme in all religions that is in line with what you have come to realize about relying on your self.

12

World Population Since Creation?

by objectivetruth in

matthew 20:28 - "just as the son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his life as a ransom in exchange of many".

the word "many" here means :.

4183 polys many (high in number); multitudinous, plenteous, "much"; "great" in amount (extent).. 4183 /polys ("much in number") emphasizes the quantity involved.

objectivetruth

Matthew 20:28 - "Just as the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his life as a ransom in exchange of many"

The word "many" here means :

4183 polýs – many (high in number); multitudinous, plenteous, "much"; "great" in amount (extent).

4183 /polýs ("much in number") emphasizes the quantity involved. 4183 (polýs) "signifies 'many, numerous'; ...with the article it is said of a multitude as being numerous" (Vine, Unger, White, NT, 113,114) – i.e. great in amount.

Considering this scripture, think about the WT teaching on Jesus Ransom and who it benefits..

1. Pre Flood - It is likely from a mathematical perspective, that 7 Billion People were alive at the time of the Flood. (Conservative Estimate)

2. Post Flood - Population increased rapidly until the Tower of Babel, Perhaps 1 Billion People alive.

3. After mans age was limited to 120 years, Population increase subsided drastically.

Calculating today's population (which has sky rocketed in the industrial age), with the past 7,000 approximate years, it seems that the total of humans Born since Adam & Eve is 20-30 Billion?

With this in mind, the Watchtower teaches that 8 Billion will Die at armageddon today, and all except 8 died pre flood (another 7 Billion)

If 30 Billion have lived, the WT teaches that over half will do not benefit from Jesus Ransom..

Can 50% or less be considered a " multitudinous " amount?

Has any one else researched World Population figures, or the word "polýs"?

27

Smiling at a Disfellowshipped JW instead of Completely Ignoring him

by ProfCNJ in

i was driving our car going to our assigned territory for our sunday field minsitry (was with jw 2 sisters) when i saw a disfellowshipped jw riding his motorcycle heading towards us.

the guy was df'd around 2 months ago only (won't delve much on his case).

approximately about 10 meters, we saw him smile.

objectivetruth

Etna - I was going to say the same thing.

I have a similar experience to relate, Recently my wife and I were in the supermarket, and we saw a Sister from our Previous Hall. We saw her, she saw us.. We smiled and walked towards her to say hello.. She quickly turned the corner and speedily pushed her shopping cart down the Bread Aisle. (Avoiding Any Additional Eye Contact At All Costs)

Hmm.. She may have smiled a tad, but if she did we didn't see it..

I suppose a smile is a start, but if you'd like to consider Jesus as your example, consider the fact that Jesus dined with a Prostitute and Tax Collectors.

77

Debunking the Bible

by Coded Logic in

there seems to be an endless number of ways to show the bible is not devinely inspired but all of it seems so complicated.

anyone know any simple arguements for this?

.

objectivetruth

Coded-logic',

I see from your statement that you care.. If you'd like you can help me try and understand the source of dis-member's abnegative compulsions.

77

Debunking the Bible

by Coded Logic in

there seems to be an endless number of ways to show the bible is not devinely inspired but all of it seems so complicated.

anyone know any simple arguements for this?

.

objectivetruth

Thank You Jhine.. Some times I too wonder about dis-member, it's almost as if he/she is a Nihilist, and simply derives pleasure from messing with people's belief paradigms. Maybe we can hear form you dis-member, do you derive some type of pleasure from referring to other human beings as headless chickens?

I'm going to have to go through some of dis-members past posts, to try and understand where all of his/her aggresion comes from.

Just look at his/her comment about "headless" creatures, and then compare that with his name "dismember".. Alarming to say the least.

152

HOW TO AVOID THE A-HOLE SPIRIT OF SOME HERE...

by DATA-DOG in

1) take meds for your megalomania and delusions of grandeur.. .

suggestions welcome.. .

dd.

objectivetruth

Dis-Member - Thank you for your kind words.

2

What a Quaint Timeline they've made - Fulfilling almost every prophet y in the bible in a 20 Year Span.

by objectivetruth in

i just saw this and was amazed by it :.

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200271564.

1914, 1,260 days begin (re 11:3): re 164; w94 8/1 31; w93 11/1 9-10. appointed times of the nations end (lu 21:24): w06 7/15 6-7; bh 215-218; w04 2/1 19-20; jv 134-142, 635-636. forty-two months begin (re 11:2; 13:5): re 162-164, 192. fulfillment of transfiguration vision begins (mt 17; mr 9; lu 9): w97 5/15 11. heavenly woman bears son (re 12:1-5): re 177-180. jehovah comes as a strong one (isa 40:10): ip-1 406. kingdom established: w12 8/1 16-17; w06 7/15 6-7; bh 84-85; jv 138-139; lmn 23-24. king of the north comes against the south (da 11:29): dp 261-262, 264; w93 11/1 14. kings take stand against jehovah and his anointed (ps 2:1, 2): w90 7/1 27-28. last days begin: rs 239-240. lords day begins (re 1:10): re 22, 24; w03 5/15 10. mountain of olive trees split (zec 14:4): w13 2/15 19. once held to be year when great tribulation began: w13 7/15 3-4. root of jesse will stand up (isa 11:10): ip-1 165-166. sacred secret brought to a finish (re 10:7): re 171-172; w90 1/15 20. seven times end (da 4): w06 7/15 6-7; re 22, 24; bh 216-218; dp 96-97, 301; kl 97; pe 138-141; rs 95-97; it-1 134-135; w86 11/1 4-7. shiloh receives right to obedience of the peoples (ge 49:10): w02 10/1 19. the time appointed (da 11:29): dp 261; w93 11/1 13-14. time, times, and half a time begin (da 7:25; 12:7): dp 142-143, 294-296; w94 8/1 31; w93 11/1 9-10. times of restoration begin (ac 3:21): bt 31; cl 77-78; w87 3/1 28. true lord and messenger of the covenant come to spiritual temple (mal 3:1): w13 7/15 11-12.

objectivetruth

I just saw this and was amazed by it :

http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200271564

1914, 1,260 days begin ( Re 11:3 ): re 164; w94 8/1 31; w93 11/1 9-10

“appointed times of the nations” end (Lu 21:24): w06 7/15 6-7; bh 215-218; w04 2/1 19-20; jv 134-142, 635-636

“forty-two months” begin (Re 11:2; 13:5): re 162-164, 192

fulfillment of transfiguration vision begins (Mt 17; Mr 9; Lu 9): w97 5/15 11

heavenly woman bears son (Re 12:1-5): re 177-180

Jehovah comes “as a strong one” (Isa 40:10): ip-1 406

Kingdom established: w12 8/1 16-17; w06 7/15 6-7; bh 84-85; jv 138-139; Lmn 23-24

king of the north ‘comes against the south’ (Da 11:29): dp 261-262, 264; w93 11/1 14

‘kings take stand against Jehovah and his anointed’ (Ps 2:1, 2): w90 7/1 27-28

last days begin: rs 239-240

Lord’s day begins (Re 1:10): re 22, 24; w03 5/15 10

‘mountain of olive trees split’ (Zec 14:4): w13 2/15 19

once held to be year when great tribulation began: w13 7/15 3-4

‘root of Jesse will stand up’ (Isa 11:10): ip-1 165-166

‘sacred secret brought to a finish’ (Re 10:7): re 171-172; w90 1/15 20

“seven times” end (Da 4): w06 7/15 6-7; re 22, 24; bh 216-218; dp 96-97, 301; kl 97; pe 138-141; rs 95-97; it-1 134-135; w86 11/1 4-7

Shiloh receives right to “obedience of the peoples” (Ge 49:10): w02 10/1 19

“the time appointed” (Da 11:29): dp 261; w93 11/1 13-14

‘time, times, and half a time’ begin (Da 7:25; 12:7): dp 142-143, 294-296; w94 8/1 31; w93 11/1 9-10

“times of restoration” begin (Ac 3:21): bt 31; cl 77-78; w87 3/1 28

‘true Lord and messenger of the covenant’ come to spiritual temple (Mal 3:1): w13 7/15 11-12

1914-1918, feet of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream image come into existence (Da 2:33, 41-43): nwt 1780; w12 6/15 19

seventh head of wild beast comes into existence (Re 13): w12 6/15 15

1918, 1,260 days end (Re 11:3): w94 8/1 31; w93 11/1 9-10

‘constant feature removed’ (Da 12:11): dp 297-298; w93 11/1 10-11

heavenly resurrection may begin: w07 1/1 28; re 103; w88 10/15 12-13

“holy ones” are conquered (Re 13:7): re 192

Jehovah cleanses temple (Isa 66:6): ip-2 396-397

judgment begins with “house of God” (1Pe 4:17): re 31-32, 260; w04 3/1 16

king of the north “dejected” (Da 11:30): dp 264; w93 11/1 14

once held to be year when master of slaves having talents came to settle accounts (Mt 25:19): w04 3/1 16

once held to be year when ‘true Lord and messenger of the covenant’ came to spiritual temple (Mal 3:1): w10 3/15 23; w07 4/1 22; w07 12/15 27-28; jd 179-182; re 31-32, 55-56; w92 12/1 13; w89 4/15 7; w89 7/1 30; w87 6/15 14-15

silence in heaven, incense offered (Re 8:1, 3, 4): w09 1/15 32; re 129-131

‘time, times, and half a time’ end (Da 7:25; 12:7): dp 143, 294-296; w94 8/1 31; w93 11/1 10

“two witnesses” killed (Re 11:3, 7): re 167-168

1919, 1,260 days begin (Re 12:6, 14): re 183-184

1,290 days begin (Da 12:11): dp 300; w93 11/1 10-11

144,000 begin “singing as if a new song” (Re 14:3): re 200

antitypical Festival of Booths resumes: w96 7/1 24

Babylon the Great falls (Re 14:8; 18:2): re 205-206, 209, 259-261; w89 5/1 3-5; w88 12/15 20-21

birth of new nation (Isa 66:8): re 183-184; ip-2 397-400; w94 1/15 14

‘disgusting thing placed’ (Da 12:11): dp 300; w93 11/1 10-11

“faithful and discreet slave” ‘appointed over master’s domestics’ (Mt 24:45): w13 7/15 21-22; w13 12/15 16

faithful slaves ‘appointed over many things’ (Mt 25:21, 23): w04 3/1 17

‘fire hurled to earth’ (Re 8:5): w09 1/15 32; re 131-132

flight to “valley of my mountains” begins (Zec 14:5): w13 2/15 19-20

‘four angels untied’ (Re 9:15): re 149-151; w88 12/15 13

“harvest of the earth” begins (Re 14:14-16): re 211-212

Jehovah’s chariotlike heavenly organization gets in touch with Ezekiel class (Eze 1): w91 3/15 11

Jehovah’s spirit begins to be poured out on remnant (Joe 2:28, 29): w98 5/1 14-15

“key of the house of David” placed on shoulder of remnant (Isa 22:22): w09 1/15 31

locusts swarm from abyss (Re 9): re 143-148; w89 4/1 17-18; w88 12/15 12-13

once held to be year “faithful and discreet slave” ‘appointed over master’s belongings’ (Mt 24:47): w04 3/1 12; wt 131

“opened door” set before remnant (Re 3:8): re 60-65

remnant “come quivering to Jehovah” (Hos 3:5): w91 8/15 17

remnant eat “little scroll” (Re 10:8-11): re 159-160

remnant figuratively resurrected: dp 290-291; w88 10/15 13; w87 7/1 21-23

remnant freed from Babylon the Great: ip-2 74; ip-1 400-401; w89 5/1 4-5

remnant ‘hold possession of land’ (Isa 60:21): w02 7/1 18; ip-2 319-320

remnant refined (Isa 1:24-27): ip-1 32-34

remnant restored to spiritual paradise: ip-1 380; w91 5/15 16

remnant step before “waters” of mankind (Jos 3:15-17): w86 12/15 13

two witnesses resurrected (Re 11:11, 12): re 169-170

virgins hear cry, “Here is the bridegroom!” (Mt 25:6): w04 3/1 14

“Way of Holiness” opened (Isa 35:8): ip-1 380-381; ws 132-134

“your God has become king” begins to be declared (Isa 52:7): ip-2 187

1922, 1,260 days end (Re 12:6, 14): re 184

1,290 days end (Da 12:11): dp 300, 303; w93 11/1 11

1,335 days begin (Da 12:12): dp 303; w93 11/1 11

cavalry charge begins (Re 9:16-19): re 152

flood of persecution begins: re 183-186

seven bowls begin to be poured out (Re 15, 16): re 220, 223

seven trumpets begin to sound (Re 8-11): w09 1/15 32; re 133, 149, 152; w90 4/1 31

1925, once held to be year when “ancient worthies” would be resurrected and remnant would receive heavenly reward: w93 11/1 11-12; jv 78, 632-633

1926, 1,335 days end (Da 12:12): dp 303-304; w93 11/1 11-12

1931, once held to be end of calling to heavenly hope: w07 5/1 30

1933, king of the north ‘hurls denunciations against holy covenant’ (Da 11:30): dp 265; w93 11/1 14

1938, 2,300 days begin (Da 8:14): dp 177-178

1939, ‘arms stand up, proceeding from king of the north’ (Da 11:31): dp 265-266; w93 11/1 15

1939-1945, ‘constant feature removed’ in lands of king of the north (Da 11:31): dp 267, 298; w93 11/1 15

1944, 2,300 days end (Da 8:14): w01 1/15 28; dp 178-179

1945, ‘disgusting thing placed’ (Da 11:31): dp 267, 269; w93 11/1 15-16

152

HOW TO AVOID THE A-HOLE SPIRIT OF SOME HERE...

by DATA-DOG in

1) take meds for your megalomania and delusions of grandeur.. .

suggestions welcome.. .

dd.

objectivetruth

I've decided to implement a new Rule.. There will now be a ZERO Tolerance policy in place against Humble Bragging, or Direct Insults of character veiled under the guise of Humility, knowledge or enlightment.

I will now supply 2 Examples of violations of this rule :

Example # 1

I'm really sorry that I wasn't able to respond to your message on JWN.. I have been so busy Feeding the poor, building a play ground, helping old ladies cross the street and, oh any way enough about me..

Example # 2

"Dear, Anonymous_lost_simpleton_JW - You have an air of superiority because you were a Jehovah's Witness don't you think ? When you were a JW you believed that you had all the answers. Your whole existence was based on the idea of "me" and "them". You and the JW's have the idea that the common rubble of humanity around them simply do not have the "special knowledge" you have.

You have no special knowledge in reality, I know this because everything knowable can be known, and I'm on the pathway of knowing it. After you left the WT and you saw behind the curtain and the immense fraud and arrogance of the "organization" you have still tried to remain special .. in fact, your need to be "right" and to "have all the answers" or to correct other's thinking is simply a fear of uncertainty.. perhaps, you still need an anchor.

It may be difficult to accept that you are as lost now as you were as a JW and just as likely to be wrong. People like you cling to dogmas of all kinds including science, to feel safe.

As I mentioned previously about myself, I'm on the pathway of enlightment, some call it Nirvana Buddhists would call it , attachment.

Some would say enlightenment and creativity are beyond attachment and as a great artist that I know a great deal about said, "Art is a serious of destructions." It may be, that life is a serious of destructions, not for people like you though, only for people like me with the courage to be free."

The first Violation of this rule will result in 3 Members of the forum posting a little sad face emoticon.

The second violation will Result In Death (The Gehenna type, NOT the Sheol Type)