Posts by objectivetruth

4

Does Modern Day Israel Observe Sabbath? Anyone know?

by objectivetruth in

does anyone know if modern day israel observes a type of national sabbath?

if so for how long have they been doing so?

thanks for the info.. .

objectivetruth

Does anyone know if Modern Day Israel observes a type of national sabbath? If so for how long have they been doing so? Thanks for the info.

30

Shunning Disfellowshipped & Apostate family Members. Scriptural?

by objectivetruth in

anyone who is a witness or was previously a witness, is aware of the written & un-written rules concerning association with disfellowshipped family members.. there are a multitude of quotes through out the watchtower publications, but these 2 will suffice.. "are you proving yourself holy by not associating with family members or others who are disfellowshipped?

"the clear instruction in the bible is: avoid them.

that means that we have to stay away from them... the bible says that apostates are mentally diseased and that they use their teachings to make others think like them... what must we do to avoid false teachers?

objectivetruth

Designs - I agree, that it is because of The writings ascribed to Paul that shunning is accepted.

39

why didnt God just do this?

by sowhatnow in

for one thing, i cant get past genesis, but no matter.. when god told adam and eve if you eat from the tree youll die.

so why did he not simple let them die and not allow the offspring to?.

you see, if i was a god, and i told two people that, id let them die , .

objectivetruth

Original Sin is a Christian Belief.. It gives humans an excuse to Sin, and since they have the Human Sacrifice story, they Justify their actions even more so. What is missed when reading the Genesis account :

"Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life. (3:17)

Adam and Eve were not changed, rather their Diet was restricted, and because of this they were not able to Live long anymore. - This is confirmed in Revelation 2:7 " I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God."

If you read non canonical writings, you will see that Adam & Eve were forgiven after they were removed from Eden, and they were given a promise of 5,500 years. This 5,500 years arrived at the death of Christ.

19

The Watchtower Confirms that The "Faithful & Discreet Slave" in 1914 Were Prophets.

by objectivetruth in

responding to the question - who are the two witnesses mentioned in revelation chapter 11?.

"so in the fulfillment of revelation chapter 11, the anointed brothers who took the lead at the time of the establishment of gods kingdom in heaven in 1914 preached in sackcloth for three and a half years.

" (watchtower 2014 11/15 pp.28-30).

objectivetruth

Prologos - I apologize I did not read my outline, properly before giving my 'talk' : )

You are write though, I now see that the new light shows that they were anointed, not FDS.. So this makes more sense the anointed were prophets, but the FDS are not?

19

The Watchtower Confirms that The "Faithful & Discreet Slave" in 1914 Were Prophets.

by objectivetruth in

responding to the question - who are the two witnesses mentioned in revelation chapter 11?.

"so in the fulfillment of revelation chapter 11, the anointed brothers who took the lead at the time of the establishment of gods kingdom in heaven in 1914 preached in sackcloth for three and a half years.

" (watchtower 2014 11/15 pp.28-30).

objectivetruth

Responding to the Question - Who are the two witnesses mentioned in Revelation chapter 11 ?

"So in the fulfillment of Revelation chapter 11 , the anointed brothers who took the lead at the time of the establishment of God’s Kingdom in heaven in 1914 preached “in sackcloth” for three and a half years." (Watchtower 2014 11/15 Pp.28-30)

The Watchtower claims that "the anointed brothers" in 1914 were The Two Witnesses, mentioned at Revelation 11:3 where it says " I will cause my two witnesses to prophesy for 1,260 days dressed in sackcloth.” And in verse 10 it says " And those dwelling on the earth rejoice over them and celebrate, and they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those dwelling on the earth."

If the Faithful & Discreet Slave of 1914 were the "Two Witnesses" according to Revelation, not only were they Prophets,..It was God who caused them to Prophey,Considering the fact that most of what They "Prophecied" about in 1914 failed to pass, this would mean that God had caused them to falsely prophecy, meaning God Lied? HMM.... Something has to give here.

30

Shunning Disfellowshipped & Apostate family Members. Scriptural?

by objectivetruth in

anyone who is a witness or was previously a witness, is aware of the written & un-written rules concerning association with disfellowshipped family members.. there are a multitude of quotes through out the watchtower publications, but these 2 will suffice.. "are you proving yourself holy by not associating with family members or others who are disfellowshipped?

"the clear instruction in the bible is: avoid them.

that means that we have to stay away from them... the bible says that apostates are mentally diseased and that they use their teachings to make others think like them... what must we do to avoid false teachers?

objectivetruth

Hi EOM, The WT uses Paul's writings to support their shunning policies. Pauls writings do not hold weight, if they are understood in a way that goes contrary to Jesus' example. Paul said " Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ.".

When Paul wrote about "not eating with sinners" these sinners would have been Anointed Individuals, who were in danger of Sinning against the spirit.

30

Shunning Disfellowshipped & Apostate family Members. Scriptural?

by objectivetruth in

anyone who is a witness or was previously a witness, is aware of the written & un-written rules concerning association with disfellowshipped family members.. there are a multitude of quotes through out the watchtower publications, but these 2 will suffice.. "are you proving yourself holy by not associating with family members or others who are disfellowshipped?

"the clear instruction in the bible is: avoid them.

that means that we have to stay away from them... the bible says that apostates are mentally diseased and that they use their teachings to make others think like them... what must we do to avoid false teachers?

objectivetruth

Thanks Crazy & Giordano.. Giordano, if you subscribe to the Only True Religion, you are a Believer.

" This is my simple religion. There is no need for temples; no need for complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our temple; the philosophy is kindness." - Dalai Lama

1 John 4:20 " If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen."

30

Shunning Disfellowshipped & Apostate family Members. Scriptural?

by objectivetruth in

anyone who is a witness or was previously a witness, is aware of the written & un-written rules concerning association with disfellowshipped family members.. there are a multitude of quotes through out the watchtower publications, but these 2 will suffice.. "are you proving yourself holy by not associating with family members or others who are disfellowshipped?

"the clear instruction in the bible is: avoid them.

that means that we have to stay away from them... the bible says that apostates are mentally diseased and that they use their teachings to make others think like them... what must we do to avoid false teachers?

objectivetruth

Anyone who is a witness or was previously a witness, is aware of the Written & Un-Written rules concerning association with Disfellowshipped Family members.. There are a multitude of quotes through out the Watchtower Publications, but these 2 will Suffice.

"Are you proving yourself holy by not associating with family members or others who are disfellowshipped?" (WS14 11/15 pp.15-20)

"The clear instruction in the Bible is: “Avoid them.” That means that we have to stay away from them... The Bible says that apostates are mentally diseased and that they use their teachings to make others think like them... What must we do to avoid false teachers? We do not speak to them or invite them into our houses." (WS 11 7/15)

The first Watchtower Quote compares the act of Shunning a Disfellowshipped family member to an act of Holiness. From this it is inferred that NOT Shunning a DF'd Family Member is an act of Unholiness.
The second quote states that a Witness should not Speak With, or invite an "Apostate" into their home, it says Witnesses must "Avoid False teachers".. There is a Great Deal of Emphasis placed on completely Avoiding Disfellowshipped Individuals, ESPECIALLY those that have Been Disfellowshipped on the Basis of "Apostasy".

Imagine this Scene..
A well Respected Elder (Well Call him James) , is Giving a Talk at Your Kingdom Hall, after discussing the Importance of Following the Bible, James says of The governing body.. "They have gone out of their minds". This Elder most likely would not be permitted to Finish His Talk. He would surely be brought before a "Judicial Committee" where the Question would be asked.. "Do you believe that the governing body, is the Faithful & Discreet Slave, assigned by God to Supply Meat in Due Season?" - James would Respond "I do not Believe in Them". After a bit of time passed, he would be Disfellowshipped for Apostasy.

Once James was Disfellowshipped for Apostasy (Not believing in The Governing Body) sadly, his Witness Family would likely Shun him.. Surely some of his Family members would remember the Words in the 2014 Watchtower that called shunning a DF'd family member an act of Holiness.

James has now lost his Family, and all of His Friends, because he Does not Believe in the Governing Body. His family members are sad but they believe that they are following The Bible, and they look forward to a reward for their Obedience to God's Word.

The question must be asked.. Is this family Following God & the Bible or are they following Man? We read what The Watchtower says about Shunnning, now consider what The Bible Says.
"Those who say they live in God should live their lives as Jesus did." (1 John 2:6)
"I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you." (John 3:15)
Most Importantly -
"He does only what he sees the Father doing. Whatever the Father does, the Son also does." (John 5:19)

According to 1 John 2:6, it is Imperative that We Live as Jesus did.
Consider the story of James mentioned above, and compare it to a similar situation that Jesus experienced..

From a very young age Jesus was Holy,Intelligent and Genuinely Unique.. At the mere age of 12 he was astounding Temple Rabbis, with his manner of teaching and speaking (Luke 2:42,47) - Imagine what it must have been like, to be a Sibling of Jesus'.
Jesus was the Epitome of Holy, and He could absolutely be believed.. To grow up with a Child that never sinned or lied (1 Peter 2:22) must have inspired a great deal of trust in his Friends and family..

Jesus Brothers give their viewpoint of him at Mark 3:21 "He's out of his mind," they said. Jesus own brothers felt that he was insane.. The reason they felt this way is found at John 7:5 "For not even his brothers believed in him."
Jesus aknowledged this fact when he said.. "A prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and in his own household.” (Matthew 13:57).
Some of Jesus own Family members did not believe in him!
If not believing in the Governing Body is considered apostasy, certainly not believing in Jesus would be considered a much greater Apostasy.

Witnesses are told to Shun Family members who are apostate.. By doing this are they following the Example of Jesus?

Jesus said, "let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven." (Matt 5:16) before this he said "Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house." (5:15)
How can your light shine if you shun and avoid all contact with A Family Member?

Jesus said this, but did he do it?
"there was a wedding at Cana in Galilee" Jesus performs the miracle with the Wine "the first of his signs,...And his disciples believed in him." Afterwards Jesus went down to Capernaum, with his mother and his brother and his disciples, and they stayed there for a few days." (John 2)

Jesus performs a Miracle, and because of seeing it his disciples believed in him.. They all then traveled along with Jesus brothers, for several days, certainly enough time passed for Jesus brothers to also be convinced to believe in him.. They did not. Later in John 7 Jesus is with his brothers and "communicating" with them, despite their unbelief. In John 7:10 Jesus attends the Feast of Booths, where his Brothers also were.

In Luke 8:19 Jesus' mother and unbelieving brothers come to visit him.. "Now Jesus' mother and brothers came to see him, but they were not able to get near him because of the crowd." If Jesus intended christians to Shun Unbelieving Family Members this would above been The perfect Oppurtunity, to show them by example.

A great deal is not said about Jesus' brothers, however by what is said it is clear that he Cared for them, spent time with them, and enjoyed their frequent companionship despite their Disbelief. What was the Eventual result of Jesus unyielding Love? His brothers Eventually Believed, but only after his Resurrection! (Acts 1:14)

The fact is that Jesus Never shunned anyone, regardless of their beliefs or their life style.
While Witnesses are told to Shun Immoral Individuals, not even speaking with them, Jesus ate a Meal, while a Known Prostitute oiled his feet. Jesus did not shun her or Rebuke her. Instead he gave a Timeless Lesson.. He said - "her sins, which are many, are forgiven—for she loved much. But he who is forgiven little, loves little.” (Luke 7:47)

19

Who Was Jesus and what it means to Believe.

by objectivetruth in

"truth is one, paths are many.

" - gandhi.

gandhi also said, "i like your christ.

objectivetruth

" Though we travel the world over to find the beautiful, we must carry it with us or we find it not." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

19

Who Was Jesus and what it means to Believe.

by objectivetruth in

"truth is one, paths are many.

" - gandhi.

gandhi also said, "i like your christ.

objectivetruth

I am The Way - My Example is the Way To Live.

The Truth - By Imitating my Example, you will find Truth.

The Life - By finding Truth you will gain Life.

It is not different then when, The Israelites were Commiting all kinds of Sins, and they were turning to religion (in the Form of Rituals and Animal sacrifice) in order to feel better about their sinful ways.

God told them the Truth " Learn to do good. Seek justice. Help the oppressed. Defend the cause of orphans. Fight for the rights of widows." - Isaiah 1:17

"The best way to find yourself is to lose yourself in the service of others." Gandhi (They Taught the same Truth)

“Your beliefs become your thoughts,
Your thoughts become your words,
Your words become your actions,
Your actions become your habits,
Your habits become your values,
Your values become your destiny.”