Yes and no.
On another point:
It became clear to me that the organization itself had completely abandoned the faith they'd claimed to represent.
This resonated with me. I suspect many people come to this conclusion but don't always articulate it. I think "conscience" plays a big role in why many leave.
i understand that, if you want to move from a congregation to another, you need some sort of a letter from the previous congregation.
i suppose that would be the root of many an abuse by the elders of the old congregation.
what can you guys tell me?.
Just a couple of things to add to the discussion (from former elder who saw dozens of these letters and wrote some of them):
1. It's amazing how many of these letters are so poorly written that it was almost impossible to figure out if the BOE was making a positive or negative recommendation. In those cases the letters were largely ignored. Otherwise, yes, your reputation preceded you.
2. Even though these letters are "supposed" to be written by the secretary and co-signed by at least one other member of the body (or two, I can't recall), a large number of letters came in with one signature. These usually carried less weight, especially if they were critical or contained TMI (too much information) because some elder would point out the procedural violation and the letter's message would be discounted.
3. Knowing that these letters are routine is knowledge you can use when doing your fade. For example, we told our secretary we were moving and asked him to send a letter to the new congo. And he did. WT procedure states that the new congo is supposed to request a letter from the old, after you show up at the new location, but many elders take a shortcut here. So a month later the new congo's secretary called up and asked if there was some mistake as they had not seen us at their KH, I asked if the letter didn't mention some serious health problems. He thought about it and said, "Yeah, I think it did mention that." So I gilded that lily and painted a picture of hard-to-diagnose chronic illness for which we were under a doctor's care and let him jump to the conclusion that it was the reason we hadn't gotten to a meeting. I assured him that when we improved, we fully intended to be there.
However, I was wrong; we did "improve" but we never went. And, as expected, neither congo wanted the responsibility to follow up so no one ever did.
just got back from memorial.
only went so that i could say to my parents that i had gone and to remind myself why i left.. oh my word!!!
it was sooooo painful.. got there a bit late - it was a couple of minutes into the talk.
I am happy to report that not only did I miss it, I didn't even know when it was! Apparently, I am totally recovered.
would you let a jw's religion affect your decision to use their services?.
.
om.
Wow, this is hardly the kind of talk you hear at the meetings, assemblies, and in WT literature concerning JW employees. They always give the impression that JW employees are highly prized by their bosses for having such an excellent work ethic.
I ran a small business (less than 40 employees) for an absentee owner (not a dub). At first, I hired dubs to work for me when there was an opening, because of the above-cited WT legend perpetuated by the literature. I soon found out there was a huge discrepancy between legend and fact.
After cycling through three disappointing dub employees in the space of four years, I never hired another one again.
my politics boil down to two simple things:.
1. i'm fiscally conservative.
because the public wanted them, yet are not willing to pay for them through higher taxes.
That is how the country got fuc&ked up. Ear marks.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist armed with charts and graphs to figure out what really happened. We started a war without creating a way to pay for it. Prior to that we had a huge surplus rather than the huge debt that takes up much of the discussion here. To make matters worse, the idiot who started the war for ideological reasons alone decided to cut taxes for himself and all wealthy friends at the same time, thus exacerbating the speed at which the surplus would evaporate.
That's why we're hocked up to our eyeballs and Social Security is in trouble. It's why we can't afford universal healthcare. It's why you can't sell your house.
The situation we find ourselves in now is not economic. It's political.
The answer is yes, unless they're Thin Mints. God loves those.
sorry, to be so blunt- for a whole day i have watched people here patting themselves on the back- we're a large army, oohh, look out wt, we might do something, well not today or tomorrow, but someday!
maybe, i have to just accept that a lot of jw's who are exiting the kh by the back door will never find a backbone to stand up to mummy and elder daddy.. jw's have a learned ability to see themselves in a better light than everyone else sees them.
ask a jw, if they are a charitable religion and they would likely all say they are, but when pressed to name a charity they will be unable to do so.
It is rather surprising to look through the members list here and see how many guard their identities ...the majority of anonymous here are hiding from the WTB&TS.
This statement is another example of why the "large doormat" theory is false. The majority are not "hiding from the WTS" but are simply protecting their reputations. In my case, I have built a professional career and have no interest in jeopardizing my present or future job prospects by associating my name with JWs.
No matter how many years you were a dub, it's never going to look good on your resume. If I used my real name on this forum, a few months from now you could Google my name and the first 50 hits would all be dub-related. Employers and professional colleagues often Google you to learn more about who you are. I am not a JW and there is simply no economic or social currency to be gained by associating myself with this fringe cult.
sorry, to be so blunt- for a whole day i have watched people here patting themselves on the back- we're a large army, oohh, look out wt, we might do something, well not today or tomorrow, but someday!
maybe, i have to just accept that a lot of jw's who are exiting the kh by the back door will never find a backbone to stand up to mummy and elder daddy.. jw's have a learned ability to see themselves in a better light than everyone else sees them.
ask a jw, if they are a charitable religion and they would likely all say they are, but when pressed to name a charity they will be unable to do so.
One of the best things about being an ex-dub (by whatever means) is we don't have to be judgmental any more. We don't have to condemn people for their beliefs, or waste any time trying to change their minds. The last thing I want to do is go back to that mindset. I know who I am and how much courage it took to do what I did. I know the price I paid. I'm smart enough to have figured out what my options were, and I chose the one that felt like me. I get to do that now.
Many roads lead to freedom and on those roads there are as many stories as there are people. Learn to embrace differences and shed your toxic dub training. Without tolerance and love, you still wear the same cheap suit of condemnation and carry the same oversized bag of guilt.
...and i think it's starting to show.. i started a thread the other day about being hounded after several years of having successfully(?
) faded.
i've been taken aback a bit the recent developments but i'm making a new strategy...one that depends more on sticking to my guns and laying the cards on the table.
Metatron said:
Open, witnessed fading strikes at the heart of this cult. It drains morale and also may cause some 'faithful' to slack off without even realizing it!
That's been my experience, too. It's all about holding the moral high ground and knowing that you do. It drives them crazy.
...and i think it's starting to show.. i started a thread the other day about being hounded after several years of having successfully(?
) faded.
i've been taken aback a bit the recent developments but i'm making a new strategy...one that depends more on sticking to my guns and laying the cards on the table.
Really interesting thread. A few things to remember about the dub org and specifically the bodies of elders:
1. They are not nearly as organized as you would think! (There are a few exceptions, where someone doesn't have a life and goes by the book, but that's rare, especially compared to 30 years ago).
2. A fade works best when you cover your trail; in other words, move (like the example used in a previous post) and make sure your cards get transfered. You will be under the radar in a new congregation that knows little about you except that you haven't been to very many meetings and now seem to have disappeared. The effort to go out and find you will be half-hearted or non-existant.
3. Most elders have no real desire to confront you about why you are not walking the walk. If yours is not a familiar face, they usually aren't going to bother... unless you walk right up to them and make it easy for them. And if they do know you, they usually back off after an initial approach, especially if you don't seem interested in talking to them. I've heard many elders say "Well, he knows what he's supposed to do" and use that as an excuse not to follow up on a "shepherding call." One thing I learned from experience: Elders feel powerless when you ignore them and their alleged "authority." It makes them angry that you don't recognize their "headship" but it also creates doubt in their minds and they are uncomfortable with that. So they aren't anxious to take any action that calls up those feelings again.
