Posts by mizpah

9

UK Bethel seminar with Secular Authorities re. child abuse.

by caspian in

can any one report if any other branch offices have held seminars with the secualr authorities like london has.. if you were not aware, london bethel held a second seminar last month (2 in 9 months although i can't seem to find the link to my post on the first seminar) with the nspcc, police chiefs, crown court judges and social workers all as a result of the panorama programme, basically asking the question .

what can the society do to protect children within the organization.. the society are putting into place all of the suggestions and advice they were given.. the new set of guidelines well be on the new circuit overseers outlines to bodies of elders for the sept 2003 to feb 2004 outlines.. my question is.

is there any other branches that are meeting with secular authorities and making changes to their policies.?

mizpah

Caspian: Please keep us posted on any further development. I'm surprised that you were able to get this sort of information as it is usually kept quite "confidential" until it is released. Of course, one of the problems that an organization faces with growth is keeping its inner workings secret. Look at the "leaks" that spring from government sources today.

It was James Penton (Apocalypse Delayed) that indicated that the Watchtower Society would face a decision in the future. He said that it would have to "change and moderate to survive." By doing so, he said Jehovah's Witnesses "will settle down to becoming just another denomination among denominations."

It is an interesting observation. Are we seeing the first signs of this?

50

What did you hope for just to avoid Saturday witnessing?

by BLISSISIGNORANCE in

last night we had a hell of a storm here.

there was thunder, lightning, pouring rain and wind.

personally i love stormy nights, cuddled up to hubby in a warm bed.

mizpah

Most of the Jehovah's Witnesses that I knew found the door to door work awkward and uncomfortable. Afterall, what normal person wanted to be rejected by the majority of people we met. Bad weather was no excuse though. Instead of the door to door ministry we would have to go on "return visits."

For those who lived in a mixed area (rural and urban) we would always try to get a "territory" that was in the rural sections. Sometimes it would be miles between houses. And if a person got into a home, we all sat in the car and talked and laughed but still could "count the time." Most were relieved when the clock read 12 noon and we could head for home.

Personally, I was shocked when I discovered that the leaders at the headquarters did not participate in the door to door ministry. I could not understand how they were above the work which they said was done by Jesus and the apostles. But, then, I was in for a further shock when I found out that these same leaders sat in air conditioned club houses at the stadiums being served their meals while the rank and file of us sat blistering in the sun and waited in long cafeteria lines. It was hard to justify the boast that "Jehovah's Witnesses had no class distinctions."

14

To AlanF and others! What legal means can be used to stop JC's?

by cyberguy in

to allan f. and others, what legal means did you use to stop judicial committees from dfng you?

since i was baptized as a teenager, can i use this to my advantage, since i was not of "legal" age to enter into a contract with the watchtower society (i was baptized in 1973)?

also, in my 30s i was appointed an "elder.

mizpah

In this situation, one also has to be very careful what one tells and discusses with JW relaltives. If they think you are "getting weak in the truth" they may arrange to have the elders call upon you...even in some cases accompanying them to your door.

Recently,while visiting the family, a person spoke to his brother-in-law (an elder) about his personal feelings concerning the organization and doctrines. Although they lived in different states, this elder called the local elders to report this conversation. It ended up that this person was forced to send in his letter of disassociation. He is now shunned by the entire family and old friends.

Ironically, this brother-in-law elder told this person that there were many things about the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses that he questioned, too. But he said that if this person ever mentioned this to anyone else he would deny it. This is probably typical of many people in the organization. But they keep their questions and doubts to themselves.

The bricks and mortar that make up the Watchtower Society are crumbling. The majority will probably try to keep it propped up. But the Watchtower can ill afford any major changes that will shake the whole foundation. Yet, if it does not soon address some of its major problems, the structure could fall in upon itself.

16

JW'S and God's Justice?

by micheal in

apr 10, 2003

especiallly considering all the great people that will never get a chance to recieve "a witness" that will, again according to them, be eternally destroyed at armageddon.

and i refuse to believe that hearing " do you want the latest wt and awake mags?

mizpah

M M: Romans 2 was always a chapter that impressed me, too. I was always uncomfortable with the thought that only Jehovah's Witnesses were going to be saved at Armageddon. This teaching seemed arrogant and presumptuous.

Of course, the writer of Romans was putting it in the context of the "law." But the principle remains valid. Just as there are those who "do by nature things required by law" even though they don't have the law. ( The law is "written on their hearts." ) Among the billions of mankind, there are those who abide by the priniciples of Christ even though they have never heard of him.

The real danger of any person or organization making judgments about others in regard to salvation is that they take upon themselves the role of God or Christ. Christ's words are a warning: "Do not judge, or you too will be judged."

22

"Beware the Voice of the WTS"

by undercover in

i've been thinking about the part at the dc on "beware the voice of strangers".

they mention three areas to watch: any dissenting talk against the organization, the internet and the media(as in newspapers, news-shows on tv, etc.).

there's been quite a bit of talk already on this board about the internet part of the talk.

mizpah

The Watchtower Society has so many double standards that it would be difficult to list them all. It has never hesitated to use the News Media when it was to its own advantage. It encouraged JWs to use its resources when reporting assembly programs or the building of new Kingdom Halls. It put the Watchtower in a favorable light and helped to win new converts.

It is only when the media reports things which are unfavorable to the Society and Jehovah's Witnesses that it becomes part of the "Satan's organization." Then, JWs are warned not to have anything to do with this evil system.

However, in spite of the restrictions, I'm sure many JWs seek out information from curiosity or for knowledge. And this is the real danger that the Watchtower fears. In any repressive system, the freedom of the press is the greatest danger because it allows individuals the freedom of choice.

13

For real or slip of the pen?

by seedy3 in

ok in another thread found here i found here http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/55200/1.ashx it references some articles by roberta moore, whos children were killed and she is blaming the wts (and i don't doubt it at all), you can read about it in that thread and corresponding links.

now as much as i feel for this person, because i know, this cult is responsable for countless deaths all over the world be it from suicide, "persicution", the blood issue and the list goes on.

i wonder if these pictures are for real in what she is claiming or can we go to any picture and find hidden symbols that are just the way the picture was drawn, with no real meaning at all.

mizpah

Does anyone recall the child's game of looking at cloud formations and seeing certain pictures in them? It was always in the eye of the beholder. And everyone saw something different in the same clouds.

It is doubtful that these alleged images were incorporated on purpose. It is possible but not probable. The recent "appearance of the virgin" in a defective window at a hospital illustrates how people can get carried away with their imaginations. Caution is the better teacher.

There is enough factual material around to question the Watchtower's standing without having to resort to the extreme theories of certain individuals who see conspiracy in every shady nook.

5

CT Russell's support for Rothschild re Jewish establishm't in Palestine

by Prisca in

firstly, this is taken from a christian fundy/conspiracy theorist site, so you can take the significance of what the author says on his site with a grain of salt, but i thought it was an interesting bit of trivia, for what it's worth.. http://www.samliquidation.com/section_13.htmcharles t. russell, in a 1891 letter to baron (lord) rothschild, mailed from palestine, outlined possible courses of action that could be taken to establish the jews in palestine.

russells letters praised the rothschilds money which established jewish colonies in palestine.

russell writes rothschild, "what is needed here, therefore, next to water and cleanliness, is a good government which will protect the poor from the ravenous and the wealthy.

mizpah

Russell seemed to believe in the literal interpretation of those prophecies which foretold the return of Israel to the promised land. The early Bible students followed his lead. But Russell's mistake was trying to force interpretations according to the events of his day. Similar mistakes were made by many religious leaders down through history including the great Reformers.

In contrast to Russell, Rutherford allegorized those same scriptures and "spiritualized" the explanation by applying them to the "remnant" of the annointed believers. (Spiritual Israel) The Watchtower continues to hold to this practice.

There is a certain parallel in the history of the church. Early Christians held to the literalness of the scriptures such as the second coming of Christ. However, when the expected events did not occur within several generations of believers, certain leaders began to make an allegory out of most of the events in the Bible and applied it to the Church itself. A good example of this is St. Augustine and his City of God.

Most good Bible scholars feel that one should consider the literal meaning of scriptures first. Then, if other scriptures warrant, one may consider a spiritual meaning. However, one must be very careful not to impose one's own interpretation. And that seems very difficult for many religious leaders and organizations.

8

For Sale

by Beans in

watchtower opens way for furman street property development

the watchtower bible and tract society of new york, inc., a legal entity of jehovah's witnesses in the united states, has announced the possibility of selling its nearly one-million-square-foot building on the brooklyn waterfront at 360 furman street.

for some 20 years, this building has been the principal shipping facility for the bibles and bible-based publications produced by jehovah's witnesses at their world headquarters.

mizpah

The reputation of the Watchtower Society has been at low ebb in the Brooklyn Heights area for many years. Undoubtedly, the residents of the area are rejoicing over the prospect of having property that will generate some tax base for them. Not only has the Watchtower ignored its "worldly neighbors" in its hungry pursuit of desirable properties, but it has also used questionable business practices (third party operatives) to do this. Is it any wonder that the exit of the Watchtower organization will be met by rejoicing in the neighborhood?

As far as the Watchtower's double standard of dealing with "Babylon the Great", it is of long standing. I can remember when the Society announced that it no longer would perform assembly baptisms in churches because of this association. At the same time, the Society rented Yankee Stadium from the owners who happen to be the Knights of Columbus.

Jehovah's Witnesses like to think their organization has a fine reputation for honesty and fair dealing. The truth is far removed from this false image.

5

CT Russell's support for Rothschild re Jewish establishm't in Palestine

by Prisca in

firstly, this is taken from a christian fundy/conspiracy theorist site, so you can take the significance of what the author says on his site with a grain of salt, but i thought it was an interesting bit of trivia, for what it's worth.. http://www.samliquidation.com/section_13.htmcharles t. russell, in a 1891 letter to baron (lord) rothschild, mailed from palestine, outlined possible courses of action that could be taken to establish the jews in palestine.

russells letters praised the rothschilds money which established jewish colonies in palestine.

russell writes rothschild, "what is needed here, therefore, next to water and cleanliness, is a good government which will protect the poor from the ravenous and the wealthy.

mizpah

There have been many theories about Russell and his organization. Some of these include that Russell was a Mason or that he was part of a world conspiracy that involved the Zionists.

Personally, I am always wary about conspiracy theories. Most of them have proven to be unfounded in recent years.

Russell's interest in Zionism was probably due to his own teaching that the Jews were to return to Palestine before the battle of Armageddon. Since the Zionist movement seemed the most likely to fulfill his expectation, he supported their effort even to the extent of meeting with some of the Zionist leaders. Today, Russell is recognized and honored by Jewish organizations as one of the few "religious leaders" that supported their movement from its very start. Russell was always quick to "jump on a bandwagon" that seemed to prove his doctrines. (The Great Pyramid of Egypt, for example)

In contrast, Rutherford was quick to revise and reverse Russell's Zionist leanings. In fact, it is obvious that he had rather a strong streak of anti-Semitism. No where is this better demonstrated than his effort to pacify Hitler and the Nazi regime by his publishing of the "Declaration" where he villified the Jews along with America and the British Isles. However the Watchtower may try to explain away these historical records, the fact is that the Watchtower organization did a complete turnabout on the issue of the Jews and Zionism.

8

Jehovah's Witnesses withou Hope?

by admiral_palsey in

-under the old covenant animal blood was shed for the forgiveness of sins.

heb 9:19,20 for when every commandment of the law had been declared by moses to all the people, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, saying, "this is the blood of the covenant which god commanded you.

heb 13:11 for the bodies of those animals whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest as a sacrifice for sin are burned outside the camp.

mizpah

One who is familiar with the teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses and those of the Bible can quickly see that there is often a difference between the two. Many of the doctrines of Jehovah's Witnesses were preconceived notions of their leaders who attempted to find scriptural proof of them afterwards. For example, the scriptures are very plain that Christ's second coming will be visible by all. But when events didn't turn out as expected, Russell sought reasons to justify his own views by a convoluted interpretation of particular verses in the Bible. (Ex:"Parousia = invisible presence") Rutherford went even further by making two classes of Christians in every congregation. By doing so, he denied the majority of believers in the congregation the personal relationship of Christ with his followers.

The whole doctrine of a "heavenly" and an "earthly" class of Christians is totally unscriptural. There was and is only "one hope, one faith" for Christians today. And all come under the arrangement of the "new covenant" that was established by Christ's sacrifice. All else is mere commentary!

Of course, Jehovah's Witnesses have as much chance to salvation as others. But it will be determined on an individual basis just as the Scriptures indicate. And it will be based on God's judgment not that of a religious organization. But one of the burdens that JWs carry is the judgmental attitude they carry toward others. Jesus said "as you have done it to one of the least of these my brothers, you have done it to me." How will a Jehovah's Witness answer when he finds out that a Baptist, Catholic or some other member of a denomination is really "Christ's brother?" In reverse, how will a Catholic or Fundamentalist react when he finds out that one of Jehovah's Witnesses is "Christ's brother?" We all should be very careful not to put ourselves into the role of God or Christ as Judge. Remember, "as you judge, so will you be judged."