Posts by mizpah

45

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 7-20-03 WT Study

by blondie in

17but you will not even need to fight.

revelation 14:1, 3 (snippet).

(revelation 7:9 snippet).

mizpah

Jourles:

I appreciate your point. But my concern is for those whose lives are still controlled by the Watchtower by reading every article and publication and trying hard to rebut all their arguments. I think very few Jehovah's Witnesses are influenced by discussions on doctrine. They immediately become defensive and think only of their counter-arguments. That's why it is futile to argue with them.

Those that start to doubt the Watchtower are already well on their way to leaving the organization. I'm sure some of these discussions do help and give additional reasons to leave. But once that decision is made, what is the point? And most of the discussions on this board are really for people who have already left.

I would hate to think that people who have left the Watchtower Society are going to be permenantly stuck to it and spend the rest of their lives trying to prove it is wrong.

11

How to Study the Bible

by Yizuman in

how to study the bible

since the bible was written a long time ago, many of the cultural references and literary styles used are unfamiliar to us today.

to truly understand the bible, we need to understand the background of life and literature 2000 to 3000 years ago as the bible was being written.

mizpah

Yizuman:

This is excellent information. Thank you for sharing it with us.

I would only add one additional thought. Most of the contents of the Bible, particularly in the New Testament, were written for plain and simple people not for the intellectuals. Most of it can be readily understood. True, there are passages that are "difficult to understand" with the passing of time and change in customs. But the essentials for living a good Christian life can be understood by all. And in the long run, this is the importance of the Bible itself.

Biblical reference works are good. But we must not forget that they reflect the opinions and prejudices of the authors. So, one has to use caution when considering these. Also, though Christians may come to different conclusions on those doctrinal points that are not clear in scripture, we should never forget the most important lesson that Christ taught: LOVE.

45

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 7-20-03 WT Study

by blondie in

17but you will not even need to fight.

revelation 14:1, 3 (snippet).

(revelation 7:9 snippet).

mizpah

All these comments are very interesting. But does it ever bother any of you that the Watchtower still has such a great hold over you as long as you continue to read and to analyze the contents of its publications? In a sense, you continue to be chained to the organization. Wouldn't it be more beneficial to use this time reading the Bible and considering the positive teachings of Christ?

It is true that all of us who have beloved family members in the organization are not totally free from it. But my wife and I decided long ago that it is a waste of time to devote precious hours to a lost cause. We feel that the scriptural advise escpecially applies to the Watchtower: "To the making of books there is no end." It results in " a weariness to the flesh."

I'm not trying to discourage a lively discussion about the Watchtower Society. I enjoy this as much as anyone. But I'm always amazed by those who delve so deeply into the Watchtower publications and spend so much time in critical reviews. I'll look forward to your responses.

52

Logic Lures Them in, Emotions Keep them In

by jgnat in

the wtbts was able to get a foothold years ago because they offered a radical departure from traditional christianity.

they offered up an alternative view of god and the afterlife, some prophetic math, and a good kick in the pants to mainline churches.

the catholic (universal) church deserved that kick, caught asleep on the job.

mizpah

kgfreeperson:

Everyone, even Jehovah's Witnesses, are able to make choices. Afterall, most JWs made a choice when they joined the Watchtower Society. But it is always easier to let others make decisions for you. One doesn't have to think about it. But often the price for this is greater than one realizes.

The Bible makes it clear that everyone is responsible for their own actions. The basis of judgment is that each person is judged "according to his deeds." The plea that "I was only obeying orders" will not stand. Many of us who left the organization were bothered by the unchristian conduct we experienced in the organization. We had a choice to make. Either we could stay in a cruel and uncaring organization or we could leave. We also had to think of the implications of our decisions. Leaving meant losing friends and family members. But staying meant living a lie.

Every Jehovah's Witness will eventually face this situation. It will come down to the issue of whom they wish to please: Jehovah God or the organization.

8

memories

by fairy in

.

i was feeling a little low in spirits today...just thought i would write down some memories,.. i remember when i was about 6 yrs old, my younger sister and i took off to the beach with a couple of other kids about the same age and we went to the beach...that was about lunchtime on a saturday and we somehow managed to get home about 8 at night....my mother must have been frantic with worry....i feel so sorry for her having to go through that.. i remember her dragging 12 kids to the meetings and everyone was amazed that she could do that...she tried so hard to do the best for us..... i remember when she started studying and she tried really hard to do the right thing ....my uncle who wasnt a witness use to give my mum a christmas cake and then she use to bury it in the back yard....even though when yrs went past she came to her senses and it was just a fruit cake with icing anyway.. whenever we had problems we always went to mum....when we were sick, when we had trouble at school etc etc..... she always had the right advice even though it may not have been what we wanted to hear...somehow she was always right.. when she had to cook dinner, i never realised but she went without meat so the rest of the family could have it.. there were 3 bedrooms in the house and we had a big garage out the back...so dad made one half of the garage into a bedroom so some of the boys could sleep out there which left a small rectangular bit..so he made that into another bedroom so 2 of the girls could have it and us other 3 girls slept in the bedroom in the house.. i remember going to the markets with mum and dad and he would carry a sack around and put things in there they would buy and he would buy cashews....they are my favourite.. my mum never really had a holiday in those yrs....wasnt till later on in her life when the kids were older that she would go interstate to visit one of my sisters...my dad worked a lot to bring money into the house.

i remember when there were assemblies in another state, she would start putting money away to save for it and we stayed with other people for the assembly because she couldnt afford accommodation for 12 kids plus herself....my dad wasnt a witness.. there are a lot more memories i have but this list would be too long.... i love my mother sooo much and as i type this i cry because she has been gone for 3 yrs dec 12 this yr and my dad will be gone 6 yrs dec 29 this yr.. as i got older i vowed to myself i would try not to answer my mother back or make her upset because i knew that one day she would be gone and i would never forgive myself ....i "talk" to her every night and tell her how much i love and miss her...she is my heart and my soul.... thats all i can tell for now, there will be more another time.. thanks for listening.

mizpah

Thanks for sharing. We should never forget that there were and are decent and loving people in the organization. Many have made great sacrifices for their families and friends. Very often, the most kind and considerate were those individuals who were overlooked or took a "back seat" when it came to prominence in the congregations. But they were always there when someone was sick or needed help. They often worked hard on chores others avoided. (Cleaning of Kingdom Halls, yard work, etc.) They were and are the real treasures among Jehovah's Witnesses.

Some years ago when articles came out about the "gifts of the holy spirit" it was noted that things like showing kindness or hospitality to others were part of the ministry work. Many Jehovah's Witnesses recognized the value of these gifts at that time. Some saw themselves more qualified for this type of ministry than going from door to door. The Society soon discouraged any such notion. Articles followed that made it clear that the door to door ministry was the only one that counted.

You are fortunate to have such fond and loving memories of your mom, "fairy." From your description, I'm sure others treasure memories of her too. Most important of all, the memory of her is in God's book of life.

52

Logic Lures Them in, Emotions Keep them In

by jgnat in

the wtbts was able to get a foothold years ago because they offered a radical departure from traditional christianity.

they offered up an alternative view of god and the afterlife, some prophetic math, and a good kick in the pants to mainline churches.

the catholic (universal) church deserved that kick, caught asleep on the job.

mizpah

I'm not sure the logic plays any role in leading the majority of members into the Watchtower Society. Most of us were either too young, too inexperienced or with too little knowledge of Bible scholarship to be able to use logic in any degree to determine what was right and wrong with Watchtower doctrine.

For most, it was the emotion of finding a people that we thought were sincere and good. The idea of having a Christian family unlike our experiences in other churches drew us close to the organization. We accepted the Wachtower's explanations only because the churches failed to really teach anyone about the Bible. And it is only when a person becomes seriously involved in Biblical research that he begins to question the "logic" of the Watchtower Society.

In many ways, Jehovah's Witnesses are lazy Bible students. They rely on the Watchtower publications without exerting any effort to research the truth. I've only known a very few Jehovah's Witnesses over many years of association that were interested in personal study of the Bible and in personal research of Biblical subjects.

55

Should I Convert to Become a MORMON??

by Latte in

just thought id share with you.

any tips on dealing with them would be greatly appreciated..thanks!

yesterday, i had two lovely young men at my door - they were mormons.

mizpah

Before anyone becomes a Mormon convert, two books should be required reading. Both are by the same author who had a parent who was a Mormon.

Author: Ernest H. Taves

Books: TROUBLE ENOUGH Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon and THIS IS THE PLACE Brigham Young and the New Zion.

11

JW Abuse Victims Who Speak to Media Automatically DA'd Per GB--Silentlambs

by blondie in

disfellowshipping of anders .

http://www.silentlambs.org/education/wtinfo.cfm .

recently the swedish television program mission investigate did a rebroadcast of the original program that aired in april of this year.

mizpah

The Watchtower often plays games of semantics. Whether or not one is disfellowshipped or disassociated, the end result is the same. A person is cut of from his family and friends and is shunned.

Don't you wish the Society wrote as much on the subjects of love, mercy and kindness as it does on its rules? Then, at least, it would be a little closer to the teachings of Christ instead of those of the Pharisees.

33

The WTS Kills Another Child

by Robdar in

i spoke to my father this afternoon and received some bad news.

the daughter of a woman who was one of my childhood friends at the kh died today from leukemia.

she was 16 years old.

mizpah

My wife and I faced the same decision many years ago when our son was born with the RH factor. The procedure in those days meant a complete blood exchange. The doctor told us to make a decision as it was getting critical. Sadly, I must confess that I probably would not have permitted it. But my wife has said in recent years that it was the one time she would have opposed my decision and allowed a transfusion. Fortunately, the doctor told us that the conditon had reversed and that my son was going to be fine. But we both vividly remember the agony and pain that came with this situation. I can only imagine the grief that comes with losing a child.

After leaving the organization, my wife developed a large benign tumor that had to be removed. The doctor again said that blood transfusions were necessary. This time I carefully researched the scriptural aspects of the issue and found it without the aid of the Watchtower publications. It was clear that the Bible did not proscribe blood transfusions. The prohibition in scripture involved shedding of human blood, religious sacrifices or dietary concerns. The lack of information alone should have been enough to leave it to the consciences of every individual and not to the dictates of a religious organization.

Our thoughts and prayers are with every Jehovah's Witness and unbeliever who has lost a member or friend because of refusing a blood transfusion. Our hope is that each Jehovah's Witness will examine the scriptures carefully and thoughtfully and come to the conclusion that the Watctower is wrong. It will save many lives.

17

Physical and/or Spiritual

by Inkie in

no doubt all (with few and rare exceptions) believe that the physical world exists.

however, what i should like to know is, how many here believe that a spiritual world exists?

and, if you believe that a spiritual world exists, do you believe that the two worlds (or universes, call it what you like) each exist separately and distinct one from the other?

mizpah

Isn't it rather presumptuous to say that because I can not perceive a thing it does not exist? Ancient mankind did not understand the vastness of the heavens. Does this mean that the invisible stars and galaxies didn't exist? Or does it say that man is finite and has only a limited vision of things?

We continue to marvel at things we thought impossible a few years ago. Don't limit your vision, even about spiritual things, because you don't understand or visualize it.