mizpah

Joined

• started 11 topics
• posted 652 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by mizpah

• 
  55

  Heaven

  by ClassAvenger in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i was talking with a jw friend and he said that they believed they would live here on earth forever.

  he told me a verse in psalms were it says "...the meek will inherit the earth.

  " for those who believe in heaven, what does this verse mean?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  mizpah

  Aguest:

  You raise some interesting points. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. One point, though. John received his revelation when in exile on Patmos when he was a very old man....well after the death of Paul. So, John could not have been the "man" that Paul referred to...unless John had an earlier revelation from God and shared it with Paul. The fact is that some Bible scholars think that Paul was using a literary form to describe his own experience.

  Another question I have is the period of the 1000 year reign. The Bible seems silent on any specifics. It implys that there are "nations" existing when Satan is let loose. (Rev. 20) Do these people live and die as experienced now? Are these nations comprised of survivors of Armageddon and their progeny? The difficulty of interpreting Revelation is that it is not necessarily written in a "one deminsional" chronological order...as you aptly pointed out. This makes it difficult to be dogmatic on the events that are described. It is hard to reconcile that the "camp of God's people, the city he loves" is the same as the New Jerusalem that comes down from heaven. On the one hand, the "camp, city" results in the destruction and annihiliation of Satan and his hordes. But descent of New Jerusalem ushers in peace, harmony and life.

  There still remains too many questions to be dogmatic.
• 
  16

  Working for a JW, and you get df'd, would you be fired ??? is it legal ?

  by run dont walk in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm sure this must of happened at least once in 125 years, but what if .......... you are working for brother a in his cleaning business (that's seems to be all jw's do) or any other business, and you get df'd lets say for immoral conduct or apostacy, would you be fired ???

  and what legal course would you have ???

  the freedom of rights must include discrimination against/for religion, just because someone leaves a religion does that give the right to the owner of the business to fire a person.. any thoughts ????????.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  mizpah

  I don't think there is any specific rule to cover this situation. But I'm sure that an elder would be put in an awkward position under these circumstances. (Example for others...etc.) And I think he would try to find an excuse other than the disfellowshipment to get rid of this person.

  There are many way of getting unwanted help as evidenced by the "downsizing" of many industries. What usually happens is the senior people with benefits and good salaries are let go for younger and less expensive employees. Of course, they never admit to this reason. But it happens.

  The same type of strategy would be used in this case, I am sure. I knew of a case that didn't involve a disfellowhipped brother. But it was interesting how the elders handled it: A brother who was in position of responsibility hired a "brother" who turned out to be inefficient and lazy. Since the brother was boss, it was his responsiblity to tell the "brother" he was no longer needed because his work did not measure up. So he fired him. The elders approached this brother and counseled him that he wronged this "brother" and should never have treated him thusly. They refused to listen to any reason that was presented. The brother eventually did a "fade out" and never went back to that Kingdom Hall.
• 
  27

  Comments You Will Not Hear at the 8-10-03 WT Study

  by blondie in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  comments you will not hear at the 8-10-03 wt study

  reviewer comments are in black and parentheses ().

  wt quotes are in red or quotes ""

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  mizpah

  Blondie:

  It's been my experience that elders "gossip" to wives who, in turn, "gossip" to the congregation. Like you, I had been in a number of congregations through the years. And the "rumor mill" was always alive and active. Both men and women had a share in perpetuating it. I always felt that much of it was because of the limited horizons of all in the Watchtower organization. That is why every little event was blown way out of proportion.
• 
  16

  Working for a JW, and you get df'd, would you be fired ??? is it legal ?

  by run dont walk in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm sure this must of happened at least once in 125 years, but what if .......... you are working for brother a in his cleaning business (that's seems to be all jw's do) or any other business, and you get df'd lets say for immoral conduct or apostacy, would you be fired ???

  and what legal course would you have ???

  the freedom of rights must include discrimination against/for religion, just because someone leaves a religion does that give the right to the owner of the business to fire a person.. any thoughts ????????.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  mizpah

  In the U.S. the laws are now more sensitive to discrimination for any reason. So, one would probably have legal recourse. But the questions one would have to ask before seeking it are:

  l. Is the legal expense going to be worth the trouble?

  2. Do you really want to go back to an employment situation where your employer is antagonistic.

  Usually, employers will never admit to discrimination. And the burden of proof will fall upon you since you would have to prove intent. Employers who want to get rid of an employee will usually give other reasons, downsizing, reorganization, etc. It seems hardly worth the bother. In some businesses, it would seem that a person would be better off to start his own and not have to deal with the headaches above.
• 
  4

  40-Year-Old Child Abuse Document Could Rattle Catholic Church

  by SYN in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  .

  very interesting articles...what do you guys think about this?.

  .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  mizpah

  All "hierarchal" organizations are the same. The Watchtower Society has kept "secret files" on sexual abusers for years according to Bill Bowen. And the local elders keep "secret files" on their members at the Kingdom Halls. While the doctrinal beliefs greatly differ, the similarites of the structure and procedures of the organization of the Catholic Church and the Watchtower Society are remarkably the same.
• 
  4

  To JW's who believe WT is the"Truth"

  by ARoarer in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i have seen comments by jw's who support the notion that thier is a group of "special men" like russell that jehovah has selected to write down the "inspired" thoughts through watchtower and awake and other publications.. .

  first of all, the bible tells us that god "cannot lie" and every "inspired utterances are true".

  that being the case, how can the truth of god originate in lies by a man, russell who was heavily involved in the occult.?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  mizpah

  Aroarer:

  The Watchtower has always made disclaimers that it is not "inspired" in the same sense as were the apostles and other writers of the Bible. Russell and others claimed that they were in the dawn of a new day and as light became brighter a better understanding of Scripture would be revealed. They claimed that the holy spirit would guide and direct them to a better understanding "in God's due time."

  However, in practice the Watchtower became much more stringent in demanding that its members accept its pronouncements as Holy Writ. Rutherford was an autocrat that broached no opposition to his own views. The Bible Students had to conform to his views or get out of the organization. And the Watchtower has carried on his policies to this very day.
• 
  10

  Can a J-Dub conduct a Bible study without a WTS publication?

  by Latin assassin from Manhattan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if j-dubs claim to be the authority on bible literacy and teaching, then why can't they conduct a bible study or preach without a wts publication?

  if i claimed to be an authority on shakespeare during a conversation with a friend, would i pull out a book written by someone else that explained it?

  how does that prove that i understand shakespeares work?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  mizpah

  Years ago, I remember a lot of talk in the congregation that there might come a time when Watchtower literature would no longer be available and everyone would have to use just the Bible. At the same time, it was stressed that we should attend the weekly book study as it would become a small congregation should the authorites shut down all Kingdom Halls. (Book study attendance was dropping off.) It was all part of the scare tactics of the time. Ironic, though, that we were encouraged to attend a BOOK study at the same time that we would have to use only the BIBLE in service.

  Of course, the Watchtower Society had no intentions of having the "publishers" use only the Bible. Their "raison d'etre" is the publishing and distributing of literature.
• 
  4

  The GB - Mystical?

  by johnathanseagull in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  .

  twiddling thumbs at work here lol...........question................. is there still an "air" of mystique about the gb within the rank and file, you know the "they must be soooo spirtual" blah blah blah..................i can remember people being so in awe of them, to the extent of wanting to attend conventions that a member would be giving a talk, as though it meant something special, .............. or have the r & f realised that the decision making and day to day activities are generally done and conducted like any other board meeting i've attended in my work and in thousands of other companies.

  jgull

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  mizpah

  It is quite true. I remember one JW who visited Bethel years ago was instructed not to talk with Brother Knorr if he saw him in the elevator. He was informed that Knorr had "a lot on his mind" pertaining to "spiritual things" and shouldn't be bothered. It was all part of the "mystique" image.

  Whenever a member of the G.B. was to speak at an assembly or Kingdom Hall, it was always to a packed audience. It always reminded me of the Pope's visit to the Catholic countries or a Protestant assembly of Billy Graham. It only demonstrates that JWs are proned to the same "hero worship" that other groups are.
• 
  8

  Confused

  by obiwan in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i have what i think is a good question.

  the bible states that we should pay ceaser's things to ceaser, but god's things to god.

  so this means to me that we should obey the "laws of the land" but gods laws are supreme.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  mizpah

  The elders often dismiss the testimony of "two witnesses" when it involves different incidences of the same type of abuse. Wouldn't one think that two reports of sexual abuse in two different cases would constitute "two witnesses" to the crime if it involved the same perpetrator? No, the elders were more interested in "not bringing reproach upon the organization" than protecting its victims.

  But I do think the pressure being exerted on the Watchtower Society will eventually make a change oinpolicy. Already, it is advising its members to report such cases to the authorities. This is a change from keeping these secrets in order to preserve its own image. There has been too much bad publicity over these cases. And it has put the Watchtower Society in a position of "damage control."
• 
  9

  Reach out and touch someone today

  by jgnat in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the "untouchable" woman touched the robe of jesus' garment (matthew 9:21, mark 5:28).

  did jesus rebuke her?

  the disciples tried to turn the children away.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  mizpah

  I would like to believe that many JWs are suffering just as much as those who have been disfellowshipped. What the Society has demanded of them is unnatrual and unchristian. But in their minds, it is a choice between "obeying God" or giving in to human emotions. The Watchtower has conditioned their minds over the years. This "brain washing" makes them do what they wouldn't do under normal circumstances.

  So, I really think Jehovah's Witnesses should have our compassion and pity. I'm convinced that they will be held accountable one day. The plea that they were "only obeying orders" will not hold. Each will become responsible for their "own deeds." But I'm sure that a merciful God will take into account their circumstances even as he will our own. And I'm positive that the sacrifice of Christ will cover their sins as it does ours.