Posts by mizpah

34

The biggest issue the Society has to face.

by nicolaou in

not paedophilia - as much as that must be dealt with.

not blood, shunning, corruption, failed prophecy, bunked chronology, the internet or u.n type scandals.. the biggest issue/threat the watchtower faces is authority.. hold up any other issue before a true jw and the shutters come down.

because they have listened to 'authority'.

mizpah

Avengers:

I couldn't agree more. If one still values Christian faith, it is the Bible and not an organization that determines who is and is not an "apostate." Unfortunately, many XJWs have abandoned all faith in God and the Bible. And the Watchtower points to these individuals to justify its "broad brush" portrayal of all who leave the organization. But there remains many of us who left because we no longer felt the Watchtower Society represented God and Christ. But we still hold to the Christian principles set forth in God's word.

33

First Christmas

by yxl1 in

when we first left the dubs, we celebrated x-mas pretty much straight away, but had no decorations or tree, and only gave gifts to each other.

for some reason it just seemed wrong to put up decorations and we continued to celebrate this way for about 5 years.

we decided to put up decorations when it was my daughters 1st x-mas, and have never looked back.

mizpah

My wife and I don't celebrate Christmas. We are still appalled by the comercial aspects of this holiday. And we think that Jehovah's Witnesses are right about the pagan origins of the celebration. However, it no longer bothers us that others do celebrate it. Part of the freedom we enjoy is now to make a decision about such things not because of some religious organization...but based upon our own decisions. And we feel it important that all have this freedom to choose according to one's own conscience.

However, we have observed that many XJWs feel they have to "compensate" for all they missed while they were in the organization. They tend to overindulge all the "forbidden" things they were denied. However, it is important to evaluate some of these choices based upon principles rather than indulgences. There are still valuable lessons to be learned from the Bible.

10

Research Linking Wealth, Religion Shows JWs Among the Poorest

by teenyuck in

jw
friends

here is a very interesting article from today's local paper.

a reseacher from ohio state university is showing that american jews develop substantially more wealth than christians, including jws, based upon education and early investments...... .

http://www.dispatch.com/news-story.php?story=dispatch/2003/09/25/20030925-c1-04.htmlosu sociologists study jews criticize research linking wealth, religion thursday, september 25, 2003felix hoover the columbus dispatch .

mizpah

It is not surprising that Jehovah's Witnesses rank low on the wealth scale. Jehovah's Witnesses were not encouraged to further their educations by going to college. The preaching work always took precedent over working careers. And the appeal of "the truth" always had more response among the poorest segments of society. Under these circumstances, one would expect a low rating among Watchtower members.

15

Sen Sen ?

by NEWWORLDSLACKER in

jw
friends

who likes sen-sen ?

i love em ......cant get enough of this shite !.

nws

mizpah

I haven't heard about Sen-Sen in years. It used to be used primarily to cover over an alcohol breath. We used to call it "Sin-Sin."...haha. Of course, the sweet smell of it was a dead give-away.

15

I did not go to the one day Assembley!!!

by Singing Man in

yes verginia, i did not go to the one day assembly today because of these reasons:

i sang with my friends at a night club till 1:am, and i slept till noon, and just had to set in my sweats and eat hot cakes with sausage gravy along with a cup of coffee.

and because i find surfing the web much more educational and entertaining than setting on hard seats hearing some cone head asking me "what sort of persons ought you to be blah blah" and waiting in lines to go pee and do #2, and i find it much more fun to plop down in front of my tv and watch cable springer eating potato chips and dip.

mizpah

"one day assembly?"

That would be a breeze compared to the 8 day assemblies we used to have in NYC. There was no escape from the heat in the stadium made worst by having to watch the fountains on the field. There were afternoon and evening sessions that we were told not to miss. Mornings were suppose to be for field service. We had to tote three or four small children back and forth on the subway. And most of us did this on our "vacation time" from work.

Do we miss assemblies.... Not a chance!

8

Refuting Faithful Slave Myth Accusations.

by integ in

again, playing devils' advocate here.

i brought up to a staunch witness relative some reasons the annointed remnant, or however she wishes to regard them, are not the faithful and discreet slave mentioned in matthew.

i brought up the fact that practically all the core doctrines that the witnesses were teaching in 1919 when the "master arrived and chose the watchtower as his instrument" would be considered as apostasy today, by the witnesses.

mizpah

You've just demonstrated a "lesson in futility." Unless a person has personal doubts and questions about the Watchtower Society, there can be no reasoning. These are the conditioned answers that Jehovah's Witnesses have used for a number of years now. Since they equate the organization with God, they feel to question or doubt it is to question and doubt God.

When I confronted the elders about the parable of the "faithful and discreet slave" of Matthew 24:45, I asked them about the parallel account in Luke 12. ("faithful stewart") and asked them who was pictured by the one "deserving punishment" who is "beaten with few blows." Whereas Matthew descibes only two types, faithful and unfaithful, Luke adds a third type who receives a lesser form of judgment. Of course, the elders were at a loss to identify what "class" this would represent.

46

They're turning up the heat

by Winston Smith :>D in

well, after four elder meetings at 2 hours a pop, they sill want to get together with me.

the last meeting i told them to give me scriptural backing that disproves that the 70 years ended when babylon fell as spoken of at jer 25: 10,11. i also asked for scriptures to prove why they insist on 607 rather than 587 as the fall of jerusalem.

they said they would do that and get back to me.

mizpah

Winston,

I think David is right. The only thing they will be interested in will be whether or not you still recognize the Watchtower Society as the channel that Jehovah is using today. If they attempt to answer your questions, it will be superficially. But my guess is they will "cut to the chase" with the inevitable question about your own views regarding the organization and its role today.

Be warned, though: The elders can disfellowship you "in absentia" even if you refuse to appear at their judicial meetings. They are probably buidling the evidence they need right now. It will not bother them if they become the accusers and judges in this matter. Don't expect a "fair hearing." And do not be naive to think they will be distracted by other matters after all the counsel they have received about weeding out the apostates from the organization.

40

Memory - How it works

by Lady Lee in

many survivors have difficulty understanding the nature of memory, why we forget and what causes us to remember.

we often doubt what we remember or others doubt what we say.

we think we must be crazy to even have certain thoughtss.

mizpah

waiting:

My point was that the memory of even true events can be tainted by other factors. A child of six is very impressionable. I think I have a clear memory of those events of December 7th. But there still remains a possibility that I was influenced by the many tales told in our family of that Sunday. We can often "see" through the eyes of others. And in later life, it is difficult to separate the two. That was my only point.

In the cases of the day care workers who were accused of sexual abuse of children, it caused a "feeding frenzy" among the reporters. Strong emotions and feelings took over. It destroyed the lives of the workers. Along with the sexual abuse, the children accused them of ritualistic murders and other fantasies that only adults could conjure up. Some of the workers were tried, found guilty and served sentences. It was only after a sobering assessment of the whole situation that one realized that these accusations lacked real evidence. Eventually, the significance of false memory and conditioning became understood. Most of the workers were exhonerated. But by then, their reputations and lives were ruined.

Tragedy stalks both sides of this issue. Children experience it when they are sexually abused by adults or other children. It leaves them with permenant scars all their lives. But it also follows those who have been falsely accused. Their lives are never the same. Although not guilty, they live with the shame and suspicion the rest of their lives.

40

Memory - How it works

by Lady Lee in

many survivors have difficulty understanding the nature of memory, why we forget and what causes us to remember.

we often doubt what we remember or others doubt what we say.

we think we must be crazy to even have certain thoughtss.

mizpah

Lady Lee:

No, I had not read the other threads regarding this subject. (I'm rather new to this forum.) I was merely trying to show both sides of this issue. I knew of a woman who had accused her father and grandfather of sexual abuse largely because a therapist "recovered" the "repressed memories" of the individual. The father who was still alive at the time was devasted by the accusation. It probably contributed to his early demise. At the time, it was at the height of the "repressed memory" furor. Many therapists were centering all their attention on this possiblity without considering other alternatives. Many families falsely accused were destroyed during this time. I don't blame the patients as much as I do those therapists who seem to be following a psychological fad at that time.

Do I believe in repressed memories? Yes, I do. Trauma can bury true memories that can later be recovered. And sexual abuse is one of the worst traumas a child can experience. But I only wanted to caution the danger when dealing with this issue. Sorry if I offended you in any way. But it is always helpful to be reminded that there are two sides to every issue.

40

Memory - How it works

by Lady Lee in

many survivors have difficulty understanding the nature of memory, why we forget and what causes us to remember.

we often doubt what we remember or others doubt what we say.

we think we must be crazy to even have certain thoughtss.

mizpah

We must not overlook the possibility of false memories. In a number of cases involving children in preschool sexual abuse cases it was determined that preconditioning by parents and therapists created false memories of events that never occurred. Young children are vulnerable in these situations. Courts are cautious now to accept testimonies from very young children because of this.

Therapists were often the greatest offenders. They could easily implant false memories in their sessions. Instead of trying to gain an unbiased opinion, they worked hard to condition the child to testify falsely.

Also, memory can be tainted by other factors. I have a clear memory of hearing about the bombing of Pearl Harbor in 1941. But since I was only six years old at the time, I'm really not sure whether this memory is a true one or one that was developed by listening to everyone's story about that Sunday morning.

One has to be very careful when it comes to Memory...and how it works!