Really enjoying this thread. I'm with you, onthewayout, as the trigger for me in the past year or so has been the teachings. Before that happened I was vaguely unhappy with the whole thing but I couldn't put my finger on it. The ministry was boring and unproductive, the meetings were very unstimulating, but I liked the whole fellowship thing. Then when we had all the changes to the f&ds business, the stressing of the overlapping generation, the bending of scripture with the dukes and the Assyrian attack nonsense, linking this with the obey at all costs which is hammered home all the time now, then I thought my head was going to explode. I am still going for my wife and I still have a lot of emotional attachment to both the people and the 'idea' of what Jehovah's Witnesses say the bible teaches. I would love to live forever in nice surroundings. That's part of the emotional stickiness still there. But when it all doesn't add up you cannot deny the effect it is having on your mind.
thedog1
JoinedPosts by thedog1
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one last step..Is being mentally out the same as being emotionally out?
by MissFit inwe talk here about the importance of being mentally and physically out to be really free.. what about being emotionally free?.
i realized for me, i had to be emotionally awake first.
i had been yo-young back and forth for years.
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Latest stage
by thedog1 ini've posted on and off here over the past year, but not much recently.
anyone who read my previous posts will know that i started learning all sorts of surprising things about jehovah's witnesses about a year or so ago, well, surprising to me anyway.
i feel very sad now as it is getting harder and harder to go to meetings.
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thedog1
Thanks for your suppport to all.
Data dog, you have it right when you say the nu-light causes problems and that elders are worried about the 'sheep' being stumbled. I have discussed some of these things with other witnesses, one was very cool about it as he has some of the same thoughts himself, but he is also no longer serving. When I discussed some of my concerns, particularly about the funding issue and the money grab by the org, with another still serving brother, he became anxious and I had to steer the conversation elsewhere. He is a friend of many years standing but even though he questions some things, he still believes the org is being used by Jehovah. So no dice there.
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Latest stage
by thedog1 ini've posted on and off here over the past year, but not much recently.
anyone who read my previous posts will know that i started learning all sorts of surprising things about jehovah's witnesses about a year or so ago, well, surprising to me anyway.
i feel very sad now as it is getting harder and harder to go to meetings.
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thedog1
I've posted on and off here over the past year, but not much recently. Anyone who read my previous posts will know that I started learning all sorts of surprising things about Jehovah's Witnesses about a year or so ago, well, surprising to me anyway. I feel very sad now as it is getting harder and harder to go to meetings. I've been looking at the material for this week's service meeting which is all about proving 1914, and after reading both of Ray Franz's books and other information here and elsewhere, especially the new book released at the summer convention which copperfastened the 'overlapping generation', then I realize that for me, the game is up. I'm not sure what to do. My wife still believes it all, but has serious health problems which mean that she misses a lot of meetings, and has some psychological problems, brought on in part by being a witness most of her life. I can't get back to that place I once had, even not so long ago where I kind of still believed it all, even though I have had vague reservations for about ten years, before I had read anything about Ray Franz and all the stuff that went on in the '80's. I know that if I mentioned any of this to the bros locally then I would be out on my ear pronto. I was a serving brother up to not so long ago, but cited my family situation as a reason for jumping ship from that responsibility. I need to keep the illusion of being in still going for my wife's sake and lots of family involved. The truth hurts.
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How have you changed since finding TTATT ?
by Phizzy inon coftys thread about his former pastor trying to re-convert him, which is very long but a tremendous discussion of the problem of evil, a poster, sunny23, wrote :.
" having been 7 months since i first posted on the first page of this topic i have just read those posts and acknowledged a huge transfromation in myself for the better."..
i was only thinking the other day how, as i discovered this site and ttatt, i really changed as a person in so many ways, and i think mainly for the better.. i have been "born again" !!.
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thedog1
Things have changed dramatically for me in the last year. Mostly mentally, as my outlook has gone from thinking I had the truth with some reservations, to realizing that there are huge gaping holes in what I have spent over 30 years believing. In the space of this year I have stepped aside as an elder, and now find it very difficult to go on the ministry. Still at the meetings. My wife knows something is amiss and we have discussed a few things. Starting to think of non-Witnesses as more normal, not somehow people who will infect me in some way.
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Just Curious About Something
by EmptyInside insorry,couldn't think of a better title for this post,without it being long.. i was thinking this morning,if ex-jws, who were born into the group less likely to join another religion after leaving.
vs. the witnesses who belonged to a church before joining the religion.. from my own prespective,being raised a witness,i have no intention of joining any religion.
and it seems that born-ins are less likely to join a religion after leaving the cult.. in my own experience,i think it's religious burn-out to tell the truth.
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thedog1
I think it is hard when you have grown up as I did (Catholic church) and then find out that much of it is based not on the Bible but on church tradition, you reject that, then you read the bible, become a Witness, stay in it for a long time and then realize that there are a lot of holes in it? Dagney, not to try to reject the experience you had in a Catholic church, but when I grew up in that tradition and saw all the hyprocrisy and lies inherent in that religion, then I could never go to that church again and feel good. I understand that you like the tradition and formality of a celebration like Xmas eve from time to time, but I think that this MAY be a form of conditioning from the world around us that makes us think we are missing something if we don't take part in these things.
Now I am worn out from being a JW and think I need a rest. Probably won't get one though as I am still in there due to family and other commitments. I spoke in a general way to my wife tonight about the way our personalities are stifled in a sense because of the duties of being a JW and how now that I have relinquished some responsibilties then maybe I can access my real personality again. Something we all want to do probably, as current JWs who are having doubts or for ex-JWs trying to find their way.
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First post
by thedog1 inthis is a very strange thing for me to do.
i have been an active witness for over 25 years.
i currently serve as an elder and i conduct the watchtower study.
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thedog1
Just looking back at the posts others did on my first post last November. As others have said, as time goes on you start reading the publications from a different angle. So much has happened during that time. I won't say when this happened but I am no longer an elder. I could not in conscience teach things I either couldn't understand or did not agree with. But I gave other reasons like pressure and health problems (both true) as the prime factor in stepping aside. Just trying now to keep things calm and steady with my wife. She knows the real reasons (sort of) as she even read the section in the new book released at the DA about the 'generation' teaching and she found it weird that there was no scriptural backing given for it. No sudden decisions for the moment. Just need to step back and reflect on where this is all going.
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how is it that some fade out of the org and others seem to be pushed?
by sowhatnow ini cant figure out how some persons like my husband and son, simply got too 'busy' and gradually stopped going to meetings, and were totally left alone, and yet some persons.
seem to indicate that people were constantly in persuit of them, for a way to disfellowship them.. the ones who fade never get 'disfellowshiped' unless they write a letter formally requesting thier name be of the membership.. just like the jw org tells people who get baptised to do to thier former church,.
i havent been to a meeting in a few months however it is also under a 'remodel' im sure im not missed.
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thedog1
I agree that it depends where you are and the elder body. Years ago in another cong I was in a bro stopped going to meetings. A few years later he came up for discussion and because he was involved in something that could get you disfellowshipped, the thought was broached that he should be subject to a JC. As he was still occasionally associating with some bros it was felt that he could influence others by his conduct and he was disfellowshipped. Kind of a judgement call by the local body of elders. I have been in the wars recently as I have stopped serving. I have no intention of stopping attending meetings, but I know others will wonder if my not serving means I have done something 'wrong'. Time will tell. I will never talk to others that I think would rat me out about issues I have with the generation teaching and other things. My wife is worried about me and thinks I am leaning toward apostasy, but is still supportive to me personally.
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Ironic quote in the 5/14wt lesson "Are you moving ahead with Jehovahs Organization"
by BU2B inthe whole article makes me ill with its worse than average mind control.. i was going to only include one quote but there are so many doozies that i will post what i feel to be the worst.. from paragraph 6.
"gods organization survives and flourishes on earth because the people who are part of it have his approval.".
the great tribulation has been "so close" for over 120 years of wt history.
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thedog1
15 If we are to have Jehovah’s favor and blessing as individuals, we must support his organization and accept adjustments in our understanding of the Scriptures
Well you cant get much more blatant than that. Add that one to your site JWfacts! HEre is a clear statement that we CANNOT have God's blessing unless we not only support the WT but also Accept adjustmets in OUR understanding of the scriptures. The OUR means the GB. If someone cannot accept a change like the FDS or generation, then this article is saying that you cannot have Jehovahs favor or blessing!
My wife, who is very loyal to the org and has finally worked out that I might be looking up 'dodgy websites', which she has pleaded with me not to do, in response to this paragraph in the wt study, said to me 'so they want to drive the waverers out and just keep the ultra-loyal ones?' Very interesting. She thought this would result in uber- witnesses being the only ones remaining.
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vRemember Those in the Full-Time Service
by thedog1 inforgive me if this has been posted before by somebody else but i am outraged by the wt study edition for sep 15 2014 and the study article about remembering those in full-time service.
some choice quotes:.
of course, some have circumstances that do not allow them to share in the ministry full-time at this point.
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thedog1
Forgive me if this has been posted before by somebody else but I am outraged by the Wt study edition for Sep 15 2014 and the study article about remembering those in full-time service. Some choice quotes:
Of course, some have circumstances that do not allow them to share in the ministry full-time at this point. We can be confident that Jehovah values their whole-souled efforts as well. Think of those whom Paul named at Philemon 1-3, including all who were part of the congregation in Colossae. (Read.) Paul appreciated them, and so did Jehovah. In the same way, our heavenly Father appreciates your service. How, though, might you give support to those who are now serving full-time?
This paragraph assumes that everybody would pioneer if they could, and by implication condemns those who through their own choice, free will, conscience etc. decide they do not want to pioneer.
Here's another one: Another sister who was able to pioneer for some years said about the pioneers in her congregation: “They work hard and endlessly. When others offer to drive in service, invite them for a meal, give them a little gas money or some other financial boost, they are grateful. It shows them that you really care.”
This means that we are guilted to not only give pioneers a meal, which we have often done, but to give them 'some other financial boost.' So some pioneers we knew over the years who had an entitlement mentality will just go the whole hog now. I actually had a brother quote this article recently to me to support his notion that Joe Soap Publisher does not understand how expensive it is for Bro Pioneer to keep going!!!
Here we go again! 10 Looking back on her pioneering with other single sisters, one sister who has been in the full-time service for almost 50 years recalls: “Our elders visited the pioneers every couple of months. They asked about our health and secular work and checked to see if we had any concerns. They really meant it. They visited our apartment so that they could see whether we needed assistance.”
This is a curious one. Does this mean that the elders now have to arrange for redecoration of pioneer accommodation and perhaps again some financial contribution?
Here is the next one: How might we assist special pioneers? An elder in a branch office who is in touch with many of them explains: “The elders need to speak to them, find out what their circumstances are, and then determine how they can assist them. Some Witnesses assume that special pioneers are wholly cared for because they get an allowance, but the local brothers can assist them in many ways.” Like regular pioneers, special pioneers appreciate having companions in the field ministry. Can you help in that way?
Perhaps to spare sombodys blushes, there is a little reminder to help in the field ministry at the end of the above paragraph. But the unmistakeable thrust of it is, can you support the special pioneers financially?
But there is more to come. This is one of the best ones. Full-time servants age, and so do their parents. When parents are Witnesses, likely their fondest wish is for their children to stay in their assignments. ( 3 John 4 ) Of course, if their parents need care, full-time servants will do all they can and will come to help them as often as possible. Still, those back home may help those in the full-time ministry by being ready to provide care if aging parents need assistance. Bear in mind that full-time servants have significant responsibilities in the most important work the world has ever known. ( Matt. 28:19, 20 ) Could you or your congregation lend a hand if the parents of full-time servants need help.
We were softened up for this by a previous wt article about helping aged ones ,but this really hammers the point that the org wants the local cong to bail out the full-time servants so that they can stay in their assignments. But, unbelievably, there is more. Back in paragraph 13 of this article it says this
Circuit overseers and their wives are often viewed as spiritually strong, resilient people. This is true of them, yet they too need encouragement, companionship in the ministry, and inclusion in a balanced amount of recreation. What if they get sick and are hospitalized, perhaps needing surgery or physical therapy? How refreshing they find it when local brothers and sisters assist with their needs and take a personal interest in them. We can imagine the concern that “the beloved physician” Luke, writer of the book of Acts, must have shown toward Paul and other traveling companions.
What are the needs described here? Simply a need for companionship and recreation? Or should we read between the lines and mention money? I don't know anymore. Especially when all the new initiatives from the org, like the appeal for couples over 50 to serve where the need is greater is accompanied by a stipulation that these ones must be financially and medically self-sufficient, when those who want to go and serve in Bethel must finance all their own travel arrangements, when those willing to participate in the public witnessing doing the cart work and the stands must take on personal liablity for these things, so that if somebody is sued, then, as the letter to elders specifically states, they are doing this work on their own intiative as a part of their own witnessing. Even though they are using WT publications and the materials, the carts or stands etc. remain the property of the congregation. What insanity is all of this? Compounded by the fact that a temporary co told me recently that this article justified basically the costs the co incurred and not to be questioning it!!!!!!
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All appointed men are being told they have to pioneer now!
by stuckinarut2 inyes, you read correctly..... all appointed men have been told in a new letter that they have to pioneer to "set the lead" whenever there is a "special" campaign month.
they use some scripture saying that these ones have to show by example.... so for any of us who are appointed and have learned ttatt, it is going to be very hard to fade during this time!.
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thedog1
In my hall the bro doing the part did lay it on quite thick that everyone should seriously think about pioneering, and said that there are plenty of forms for everyone. I think it is possible that I might be the only one of the elder body that is not pioneering in August as most of the elders already pioneer, but still they won't put a gun to my head and tell me I should.