The most I had done was 13 hours, when I was exactly 20. I was an arrogant bastard back then. And I thought that was the threshold! But, yes, it seems that fanaticism has its way of getting through and expanding, in youths especially. Now, all these fanatic practices make me so sad to hear about... The thing is those poor kids think they do something really progressive... Those young kids, it's in their hands to be conscious, ethical humans, or surrender to being blind warriors and sheep at the same time.
Posts by Syme
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2724 hour field service marathon ??
by gingerbread infield service for up to twenty-four hours non-stop.... it's a bit of a fad in our area with pioneers - the twenty somethings especially.
we've heard from other family members and a jw friend that it's a thing in their part of the country as well.. it sounds like a group decides on a day and then piles into a van or suv to 'work' the territory - 12, 18 and even 24 hours.. anyone else hearing of this?.
ginger.
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Surrounded - Yet All Alone at the same Time
by offgrid5150 ini've been lurking for a while,but figured i'd introduce myself.
i was born in, and i'm 30 years old.
it's hard to just read as a guest, and not share with anyone eventually.
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Syme
Welcome, Offgrid. I'm new here as well, with some similar circumstances: am 30 too, and still active. So I can't give you any advice on what to do next, because I haven't done any actual step yet, apart from discussing with some very close friends, as well as my parents.
So, I'be glad to hear your future news, as well as share mine!
Be well!
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'Evolution' of the Creative Days length
by Syme inwe all know that wts likes to distance itself from the young earth creationists, who believe in the literal 6-day creation.. so are we supposed to be something fundamentally different from the yecs?
not so much.... i did some research some time ago about what the society believes abouth the length of the creative days.
this is what i found:.
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Syme
We all know that WTS likes to distance itself from the Young Earth Creationists, who believe in the literal 6-day creation.
So are we supposed to be something fundamentally different from the YECs? Not so much...
I did some research some time ago about what the society believes abouth the length of the creative days. This is what I found:
Publications written in the 60's and 70's: the creative days are 7,000 years each. (with regards to geological time, this is about the same as 24 hours; no big difference to YECs)
In the 80's and 90's this appears instead: The creative days conist of thousands of years each. (how many thousands? Tens? Hundreds? Millions?)
However, in a 1987 Questions from Readers, the "7,000 length" view is repeated again (for the last time).
In the 00's, this changes to: The creative days consist of long periods of time. (right. Very specific!) In recent publications, you'll see the "thousands" word has been dropped off completely.
And the best for the last: the Life (lf) brochure (2010) in p.23,24 has a graph depicting a soccer field. This represents the 4.5 billion years of Earth's history. A line is drawn at 1/8 the length of the field, representing the Cambrian explosion, which represents supposedly the creation of animals (hilarious, but our point is the length of the days). So: 1/8 of 4.5 Bya = 562.5 Mya ==> So, the creative days took place over 500 M years ago, says the Watchtower. Now, that's a step forward. But if the creative days last so long, then what about the 7th day? When was Adam created? If all days have equal length, when will the Millenium begin? In some million years??? You see the whole 7 days theology breaks down.
One good point is that the WTS seems to be getting closer and closer to scientific facts as decades pass by, albeit in a giant turtle speed. Maybe in some future generation it will endorse theistic evolution, who knows.
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Elders oath
by Crazyguy inis it true that the elders swear an oath when made elders and what is this oath???
?.
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Syme
Sorry, no oath there. Nothing ceremonial.
Only a question is done in private before the announcement: "Is there anything in your personal/family life that would disqualify you?" This applies to MS appointments as well. If you answer yes, the appointment is aborted.
Maybe you heard something about the Poverty Oath that Bethelites make. That is true, but for Bethelites, not for elders.
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Clarifying who can be labelled Creationist.
by jonahstourguide inhi folks.
october 15 2013 study watchtower page 7 para 3. the paragraph states that.
"fundamentalists of christendom teach that the universe, including our earth.
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Syme
Of course JWs are creationists!
Old-Earth creationists, with a tendency to Progressive creationism lately (changing slowly the definition of "kinds" to that of genuses or ever families); but creationists nevertheless. Check the articles in Wikipedia on the creatiosism and its sub-genres, please.
CREATIONIST: One who believes that each species ("kind") was specially CREATED by God, instead of evolving.
The WTS's misleading definition of "those who believe in 6-day creation" is a half truth. Those who believe in literal 6-day creation are the Young Earth Creationists, just a small portion of the creationism "family".
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The WTS could learn a lot from the pope.
by Simon inwho'd a thunk that the wts new age religion would have the old, stodgy, completely aloof, arrogant and out of touch leadership and the old established catholic church would have the hip, cool dude at the top totally rockin' it?!.
i'm not religious but i have to say, he seems like a great leader - down to earth, humble, sensible and not full of himself despite his position.
he used to be a bouncer, did the laundry for his underlings and generally sets an example of how people like the gb should behave ... but don't.. kudos to him for doing a great job so far.
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Syme
It seems that pope Francis is nostalgic of the Franciscan era of the Catholic church. It is said that the name of his choice is a tribute to the original Francis of Assisi, the founder of the Franciscan Order, who tried to bring the Catholics back to the First Century principles of Poverty and humility. So, if he's a Frasciscan in spirit, well it doesn't say much (Frasciscans were still devout Catholics), but could be a shift in attitude from the previous popes. And yes, the Frasciscan spirit is really lost in time, lost even by some Christians in Warwick, it would seem.....
If you are interested in learning more about the Frasciscan era, read Umberto Eco's The Name of the Rose (William of Baskerville was a Frasciscan).
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A radical direction for the WTS - speculation thread.
by besty inwhat might the wts do to counteract growth stagnation and attrition?.
of course they could ditch certain teachings and practices such as blood, shunning and homophobia.. how about if they closed the kingdom hall network (all proceeds back to mothership) and built out more regional mega-churches?
<assembly halls>.
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Syme
L - O - L !!! DATA-DOG, I burst into tears of joy (laughter)! How did you come up with this piece of art? My congrats, if it's yours.
Needless to say, we can't wait for the sequel...
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A radical direction for the WTS - speculation thread.
by besty inwhat might the wts do to counteract growth stagnation and attrition?.
of course they could ditch certain teachings and practices such as blood, shunning and homophobia.. how about if they closed the kingdom hall network (all proceeds back to mothership) and built out more regional mega-churches?
<assembly halls>.
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Syme
Surely, the Internet will play a greater role, but probably just from the Kindom Halls. As Splash said, most congs have internet connection, and the KH will function more as a ''receiver'' of material brought directly by the GB. For instance, more videos played at KHs via a projector (as is happening already), more live streaming from Annual meetings and Zone visitrs, and maybe even whole public talks via live streaming or recorded.
But as for the ''religion-from-home'' part, I don't think so. This may be effective in the US, but in most countries (such as South Americas, Africa, East Europe and Balkans), jws don't have all that much aquaintance with the Internet; it would be difficult, if not impossible, to exercise their religious practices via the computer at home. Most R&F here where I live don't have Internet, and even if they have, hardly know how to use the Web, let alone making on-line donations and/or creating page profiles!
On the other hand, maybe the Org will eventually stick to the full Internet package and leave behind the older ones who can't follow. But still, in Africa and South America, even young people don't have a computer. They can't just leave those behind, because those are the continents that most of the growth comes from.
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Why do we have Assemblies?
by Rattigan350 inwhy do we have assemblies?
was the topic of the book/brochure study last week.. the answer not presented is that they are the organization's black friday.
stores do black friday as a loss leader to get people into the stores to spend money on more pricey stuff, not discounted.. assemblies are put on to give away books and other literature and have dramas to get people in to donate and contribute more than normally done.. yes, religion is a business.
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Syme
You mentioned the Book study meeting: Here an interesting point. The article said that doing assemblies 3 times/year is following Israel's example, who gathered 3 times/year. Um... no! 3 times/year was the obligation for men only. The whole families gathered ONLY ONCE IN 7 YEARS. But that wouldn't fit well in the article, would it?.....
Now, one of the reasons for so many assemblies is cohesion, and keeping the members in line. In addition to the ''hype'' effect some of you mentioned, the result is the production of a "bonding glue" that makes the members stick again to the organization, in case they had been starting to fade.
That is a reason as regards to the leaderhip. As regards to the plain members, one *reeealy* good reason that jws look forward to assemblies & conventions is ...well... mating. Yup, many jw youths can't wait for the next assembly, even go to different ones, so they can do some "eyewash", flirt, or even find a potential mate, something they don't have a lot of opportunities for otherwise.
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Why the field service reports?
by Syme insome years ago, we had this difficult bible study with a guy who was unofficially a witness for about 40 years, yet he would never make the step of becoming an unbaptized publisher.
we pushed him at some point to tell us the reason, and the reason was this: he didn't agree with the field reports practice.
he said he did a lot of preaching by himself but didn't see any reason to report it to the congregation.. of course, we told him that the reason we hand in field reports is so that we have statistics, and know how much work is done worldwide and bla-bla-blah.
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Syme
Some years ago, we had this difficult bible study with a guy who was unofficially a witness for about 40 years, yet he would never make the step of becoming an Unbaptized publisher. We pushed him at some point to tell us the reason, and the reason was this: He didn't agree with the field reports practice. He said he did a lot of preaching by himself but didn't see any reason to report it to the congregation.
Of course, we told him that the reason we hand in field reports is so that we have statistics, and know how much work is done worldwide and bla-bla-blah. (the official excuses laid out in the od book)
Only after a LOOONG time it occured to me: Hey, if the reason for field reports is purely statistical, why not hand in reports WITHOUT NAMES? Anonymous reports would achieve the statistics goal just the same; and I don't think it would tempt jws to hand in false numbers. On the contrary, everyone would feel safe to report the actual time he spent in field service. I would even say that the eponymous reports are more tempting to make jws give false numbers (so that they are not bothered by the elders, or maintain a pioneer status).
What do you think about this anonymous reports idea? Is there a practical reason why the reports should be eponymous, apart from the reason we all suspect, i.e. control?