Posts by Syme

12

The Foolish 'Two Witness" Concept

by metatron in

jw
friends

it seems, if i am interpreting the documents correctly, that many in the organization might reject good forensic evidence of a crime just because there aren't two or more (human) witnesses to back it up.. a quick look at the watchtower concordance reveals that all sorts of things can act as a 'witness' - such as a pile of rocks.. in john, jesus claimed that 'his works' acted as a witness.. actually, forensic evidence can offer more accurate 'testimony' than humans and is often superior.

in any case, this 'two witness' stuff is rubbish, even from a biblical point of view.

things can be a witness.. .

Syme

Want to know how rigid is the WTS as regards to the "2 Witness" rule?

Check out 2 points from MTS:

1. In the Judicial Committees lesson, the instructor repeated that only with confession or with 2 witnesses is a JC formed. When asked by a student "What about photos taken? What about tapes? What about videos?" his response was "Again: 2 witnesses. That is the rule". You understand? Even if you have the whole matter on tape, it does not stand for JC forming. Only 2 witnesses (you can always extract a confession if you have a tape in hand, though, unless the sinner is clever enough to STILL deny it ).

You see why this becomes outrageous when it comes to a pedophile against whom there's only 1 witness (the kid).

2. In another lesson about the Mosaic law, we were told of the case (in Numbers) when a man suspected his wife of adultery but had no evidence, and she denied it. They would go to the High Priest, and he would do a (rather occult, actually) test, in which Jehovah himself -as a super witness- would provide answer, if she was unfaithful or not. If she proved to be unfaithful indeed, her punishment would not be death (as normally in adultery), but just some sterilization thing. Why that exception? Because there weren't 2 witnesses, even if Jehovah himself was the 1 witness.

So yeah, this seems to be a pretty solid rule of the WTS.

20

What is your weirdest field service experience ?

by cookiemaster in

mine just popped in my head and i just had to share it.

a few years ago i went with a special pioneer(and elder) at one of his studies who was a cow herder in the mountains.

obviously, even though we were going to the middle of nowhere, where no one lived, we just had to go all dressed up in nice suits and all.

Syme

Well, if you're a special pioneer, you'd better run to the hills in suit, and even climb to mount Everest for a bible study, lest you want to risk falling behind the quota and getting a demotion from the Branch...

28

Revelation, It's Grand Climax at Hand

by Cold Steel in

it's a rather large red book.. if i wanted to purchase one from a pioneer, how much would it cost?.

i'm reading a borrowed copy now.. thanks!.

.

Syme

"Its Grand Climax at Hand!"

ITS GRAND CLIMAX AT HAND !?!?

I can't believe they actually put THAT for a title back then! This title would be more appropriate for ...erm... something else...

Anyway, why seek to purchase that book? It's in every KH and every jw house. It's not that old. Heck, just keep the one from the pioneer. He/she can find another one easily.

95

I think my faith might be returning. Feeling very confused.

by jambon1 in

jw
friends

i've been out the organisation for around 8 years.

when i first left, im positive that i suffered from some sort of post traumatic stress.

i was very angry at myself for accepting the really bad parts of the religion that i strongly disagreed with.

Syme

Well, if you want to start studying the Bible again, DON'T use the NWT! That is a doctrinal trojan horse designed specifically to lure readers into WTS, it's the same as the "bible teach" book.

If, on the other hand, you want to study the Bible CRITICALLY, and have the courage to do so, you may read along "The God Delusion" by Dawkins, "God is not great" by Hitchens, or "the End of Faith" by Sam Harris. Yes, those are avid atheists, but "spirituality" does not have to be constrained in reading an allegedely holy book. Spirituality includes philosophy, arts, science, love of knowledge. As for morality... well just read Joshua, Judges, all the genocides committed by God's people, ordered by Abrahamic God himself; you're going to see that our high morality standards come from secular, humanitarian sources, and not from a book that orders to slaughter all the non-believers & their infants, burn the homosexuals and treat women like donkeys.

22

How to get through an Assembly?

by kaxozula in

jw
friends

me just learning the truth about the truth has just made it hard to even get through a two hour meeting at the the kingdom hall.

i get so sleepy during them and i almost cannot contain it!

the last time i went to a convention, i was still an avid believer but as you can see, that has changed.

Syme

I would repeat the advice from Splash: volunteer; for expample in the Parking section, which will allow you to be outside the theater. Or in the toilets. Or cleaning outdoors.

The ipad, mp3 etc choice is a risky one, you don't want to be seen with the earphones on. Unless you have long hair (perfect cover) :)

Another choice is focus your attention to members of the opposite sex, flirt etc. All that sort of stuff that most young jws in assemblies do, regardless of their knowing the ttatt or not. Many youths can't wait for the next assembly, to rejoice in the ..erm.. beauty of Jehovah's People! Of course, that applies only if you're in the mood (and free) for that.

63

The " HIGHER EDUCATION" thread!!!

by DATA-DOG in

jw
friends

alright.

let's have the ultimate discussion on "higher education.

" let's talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly.

Syme

Name: Syme

Age: 30

Education: University degree in engineering (5-year course)

Work: Full-time, but irrelevant to my degree. Currently trying to get an additional degree that is relevant to my job.

Local background: The city I come from (and studied in) has a long tradition in higher education; the locals take pride in this, and this includes the local jws! Yes, the jws in this particular town are not against higher education. On the contrary, because of the influx of jw students from other towns every year, local jws are very happy to have a large university (and a college) in their city. Still, very few of the locals have actually attended university; the important thing is they do not look down upon it.

Family background: My father converted to jw when I was a kid. He attended university and obtained a degree as a 'worldly'. I am grateful for this, because: (a) he was never a fanatical, and (b) he actually encouraged me to go to university. My mother is more of the typical not-fond-with-higher-education jw, but nonetheless, she never discouraged me from attending.

You may have noticed that those above-mentioned attitudes are not exactly "in-line" with the GB directives. That is true. I find some comfort in the thought that not all jws, at least in my vicinity, adhere to the anti-college paranoia of the GB zealots.

9

Scripturally, JW-system is synonymous with sin

by abiather in

loving ones neighbor (whether he is a believer or not) is the kingly law.

(mathew 5:44-48; james 2:8) it is the kingly law, because it originates from king of all kings; and all other laws originate from this law.

hence violation of this law is the greatest sin, or mother of all sins; because it is against king of all kings and king of all laws.. jw-system is a flagrant violation of this law on two counts:.

Syme

I think you are correct as regards to the jws loving just their kin, and not those who left.

But who said that the Bible teaches something better? The "Love your Neighbour" command is for ISRAELITES. If you want to see how ..."loving" the Israelites were as regards to foreigners, read Judges, read Joshua, read Numbers; heck, read ANY random passage from the Old Testament. The hate for, and the (in cases) KILLING of, non-believers was a command from Jehovah himself. With regards to this, we can't blame the Jws for doing nothing more than what is commanded in the whole of the Old Testament: Love your own, KILL all the rest; if not kill them, at least enslave them, and take their virgins for "own use". Luckily, JWs don't actually kill the rest right now, not because they wouldn't do it if Jehovah commanded them, but because they are waiting for God himself to do the 'dirty work' in Armageddon.

Hate, and if possible, killing of the non-believers, especially the apostates, is in the heart of ALL Abrahamic religions. Islam still kills those who defect to another religion. The only reason Christians don't kill anymore, is because they've lost the political power required to do so. If the JWs had political power, they would kill also. Since they have only spiritual power over members, they are restrained to killing only 'spiritually', i.e. disfellowshipping+shunning.

And as for Jesus, he did say "love one another", but guess what! we was referring to his DISCIPLES at the table. Love "ONE --> ANOTHER", not love the Gentiles! Instead, Jesus, as a faithful Jew, regarded the Gentiles as "dogs" and "pigs" if you recall. Plus, he often said that he would return as King and make the nations tremble, melting from fear; he would set them apart, as sheep from goats (where's the impartiality? This is the definition of partiality), we would save his OWN, he would KILL the rest. Yup, no big difference from the bloody Old Testament here. So the faithful jws who await the Armageddonian World Genocide, they may be sick, but this is what all the monotheistic religions require, actually.

Groucho Marx quote fixed

by Syme in

"those are my beliefs, and if you don't like them... well, i have others.".

-governing body(tm).

.

Syme

"Those are my beliefs, and if you don't like them... well, I have others."

-Governing Body(TM)

46

Number of anointed partakers in new yearbook?

by JWOP in

i haven't seen the 2014 yearbook on the jw site yet.

i'm looking to see if the number of partakers has increased again (as it has for many years now).

anyone have a scan of it yet?.

Syme

Yes, a chance is that they will declare that all can partake. Another chance is that they will restrict by specific GB-given standards who can partake. E.g. they may declare that only persons among those higher-up may partake, such as Nethinim(TM), zoners, or Branch committee-ers.

All this is plain speculation of course, but hey, all the GB decrees are also of the same speculative quality.

8

Musings

by thedog1 in

jw
friends

apropo of nothing, i just wanted to share some thoughts.

i have started reading and posting here recently.

i have previously mentioned that i am an active jw, an elder who conducts the wt study.

Syme

thedog1: it my long-held conviction that the chances of falling into depression icrease rapidly for those in the full-time service. Even more increased are for the Bethelites, CO's and their wives. My explanation is because this is an unnatural work, as the society itself aknowledges from time to time. ("God did not create us to knock at doors; he created us to make children and fill the earth", as is often heard). When you give all yourself to an unnatural work, the depression is going to knock your door someday. This is made worse by the fact that the "pionner" believes he/she HAS TO appear "happy" to the other sheep, and to the world, by all means, by all costs. This leads mathematically to antidepressants.

About your situation as an active elder: I can feel for you to some point. I am also active in, at least appear to, and served as an elder in the recent past. What are your plans, really? Me, there are 2 major themes that keep me in. 1st, my work and my house are my father's property, so I would be facing the chance of starving homeless, if I just left. 2nd, I like the company. My best close friends are jws (but thinking ones). On the other hand, today's article made me almost sick, since I've studied evolution, and the whole 'reasoning' of the article was for the circus.

Extreme practice of "doublethink" could eventually lead to actual schizophrenia, don't you think?