Posts by budbayview

41

The Bizarre Free Will

by John_Mann in

two years before i left jw world i came to a strange conclusion about the jw cosmology and the free will doctrine.. basically i came to conclusion that satan is right about the universal sovereign issue.

and i came with that just only using jws premises, no outside apostasy.

i just told to my sister what she thought about it, and she said to me: dont tell anyone about this!.

budbayview

Does perfection mean you cannot sin?

Perfection does not change one’s ability to make choices, or one’s free will. If it did, then ask yourself how or why perfect angels and the first humans sinned? Perfection doesn’t make you a genius, or give you super physical abilities. You must still put data into the brain or learn. What accomplishments would there be left in life if we did not have to learn, perfect or not? It may, and hopefully so, make us a better person because we have perfection. However, it is because we have the ability to learn, and get it right, without the forbearance of death or disease or physical limitations and obstacles. But, make no mistake, it still requires us to learn and experience life and gain wisdom to be a better person.

We are very close to perfection now, with few minor genetic defects. Provided we have no mental (that we are aware of) defects to prevent us from thinking. This erroneous business about only using a small percentage of our brain is bunk. I have heard it a thousand times, when one’s in the kingdom hall would speak of perfection as if it somehow granted ones genius abilities. “We only use 10% of our brains.” they would say. “Imagine if we could tap into the other 90%!” Most of us currently use 100% today, intelligence is not gained by perfection, but rather time and experience. Living a few hundred years would certainly give one experience and wisdom. The only thing stopping us from this is time and initiative.

Since we have shown that perfection does not mean you’re a robot, then is Satan the cause or the manifestation of evil? And, if he is abolished, what does this change with respect to good and evil? It will only serve to remove the antagonist, of which he had purpose. Without that, we would not know what good is, because we would have no comparison to evil. So, do we see Gods purpose, his wisdom and reasoning in setting the parameters for us to learn THE lesson of humanity. He wants you to love him for him, and not because he will condemn us in the metaphorically defined hell, for eternity. He wants to know we are loyal above the superficial riches he can provide or withhold, but because he alone has our best interest, it is because we need him for that reason, there is no other hope. So he could have just said that, and he probably did, but to show the reality of this to his children and to prevent this from happening again, he addressed it, and allowed this universal play to proceed. Since our Father set up the rules, he knows them with expert authority and since he created us, he knows us, again with expert authority. Therefore, to assume he did not anticipate the failures of Adam and Eve is underestimating the Grand Creator. Notice, I used the word anticipate. That is because, there is a difference between a hypotheses or educated guess, and the assurance of knowing an outcome. And, if he had an assurance of the outcome, that represents pre-destiny, and we are all clear that was not the case due to the implications. In other words, what is the challenge of living a life knowing each outcome? No fun at all, right?

Bud

42

Paleo Diet. What do you think?

by DATA-DOG in

i have been suffering from fatigue, burning in my stomach, and i have always had canker sore issues as long as i can remember.

whether it's from stress or not, i can't say, but i might be getting an ulcer.

the burning in my stomach and intestinal puffiness is getting to be be chronic.

budbayview

Doofdaddy, thank you for your trite and crass response. However, perhaps you should review what the Paleo diet is all about. I apologize if you do not understand about nutrition, foods, how it effects the body, etc., and "this particular diet" or my subsequent point on soy pertaining to processed foods. Let me assure you, I have a complete understanding of what I am discussing, and you are quite incorrect in your assessment, look up the word nutraceutical or food scientist if you need to. Perhaps, I write too technical for the novice. Please read my comments again, and do your homework. Look up some references and discuss something of relevance besides attacking the author. I will be happy to explain anything you have questions on. including what the Palo diet accepts and does not, what processed foods are and lipids in general.

You do realize that you cannot “live” off coconuts, they will cause bloating, gas, pain, constipation and diarrhea.

I agree with your argument on the western diet to “some extent” however you realize that I am trying to help you make your point. :-)

42

Paleo Diet. What do you think?

by DATA-DOG in

i have been suffering from fatigue, burning in my stomach, and i have always had canker sore issues as long as i can remember.

whether it's from stress or not, i can't say, but i might be getting an ulcer.

the burning in my stomach and intestinal puffiness is getting to be be chronic.

budbayview

Sorry to disagree with you, but I was in the nutraceutical business and understand how the ingredient industry maneuvers and a bit about fatty acids. These types of ingredients are marketed for profit not for your good health. I do not discount the usefulness of coconuts or their constituent products (in the raw), but you should be looking at the complete product assay, along with the full lipid profiles to determine its effectiveness and how it stacks up with other comparative ingredients. As I mentioned, there are other oils just as lipid healthy as coconut oil and in some applications better.

Subsequently, here is another example of taking a good raw ingredient and manipulate its form through processing. Just like soy. Soy used as a condiment, in its natural state is fine and has health benefits. The industry, used the Asians as an example of how beneficial soy is and started processing it and putting it in everything. Soy milk, soy protein, soy meat analogs, etc. And when the gynecomastia (man-boobs) started growing, because of processed soy increasing estragon levels, it garnered full attention then. So who do you think is the number one consuming county of soy products? I will give you a hint, it is not Asia. So while the Paleo Zealots will opt for products made with coconut flour, they are misrepresenting the intent by a constraint to eat coconuts, but do not realize how this changes the assay of the ingredient and subsequent mechanisms of action on the body.

As far the inclusion of the western diets in other cultures and the subsequent detrimental affects, I agree. However it has less to do with coconuts and more do with refined products and processing. Take a look at Gary Taubes book, “Why We Get Fat” for a good deep dive into the western diet. He makes a good argument, with documented references about this.

42

Paleo Diet. What do you think?

by DATA-DOG in

i have been suffering from fatigue, burning in my stomach, and i have always had canker sore issues as long as i can remember.

whether it's from stress or not, i can't say, but i might be getting an ulcer.

the burning in my stomach and intestinal puffiness is getting to be be chronic.

budbayview

It has flaws in the supporting medical science references and is promoting an ingredient (coconut oil). Coconut “anything” is marketing hype, there are other oils and fats that have just as good lipid profiles.

Their argument against legumes is week, and again nothing conclusive in any medical studies that back up that claim.

They are misguided, the major problem with wheat today is GMO. It is not the same strains our ancestors ate. My family grew up on pasta (Italian) never heard of gluten intolerance or celiac disease until recently. Additionally, all the food additives that are used to process foods are very harmful.

For example, I was looking into rennet’s for cheese making and found out something interesting concerning genetic modified (GM) processes and cheese making. Rennet is a complex of enzymes found in all mammals. It is a key component in coagulating milk (curds and whey). It is processed form young calf’s (yes another unsettling use for these animals), and we won’t go into the how that works. Needless to say, animal rennet is somewhat constrained. There are vegetable alternatives, microbial rennet, and here it is, fermentation-produced chymosin (FPC). FPC sounds innocuous enough, but they use rennet-producing genes from an animal stomach and infuse them into bacteria, fungi or yeasts to make them produce chymosin (the key enzyme) during the fermentation process. The GM hosts (i.e., bacteria, fungi, and yeast) are then eliminated and the chymosin extracted off. Since there is no GM hosts remaining in the actual product, (i.e., chymosin) it is not labeled GM.

So here again is another example of science and technology in the food chain. In of itself these ideas are not necessarily nefarious, however what is the risk to our systems? So in the natural order, our design and functional maintenance was predicated on being much closer to our food sources. In that model, we would have a goat, a sheep, grow our produce, hunt for protein and gather what we find. Having cheese would require sacrificing an animal or figuring out which plants have coagulating properties and extracting that for your source of coagulating the milk.

39

New awake up on jw.org about suicide

by hoser in

they have printed a series of articles about suicide.

.

budbayview

Notmyfirstrodeo – “I'm thinking I should re-examine just what kind of god Jehovah is - We're doing all we can to get this divorce to go through, and we are living a decent life, will the Creator here my prayers?”

I am sorry to hear of your family loss and misfortunes. Yes, keep praying, and do not give up on our Father because of some self-professed truth holders have misrepresented him. Nor give up finding him out of fear, or guilt, or feelings of worthlessness. Forgive, including yourself, and move forward, find your Father, not in the WatchTower, or in one of man’s churches, but in your heart.

How can so much hatred and judicial condemnation be preached, when Jesus taught us to love our God with all our heart and mind and love our neighbor as ourselves. If we could all follow this one commandment, more would think twice about the collateral damage that shunning and DF’ing does. This is not love, it is ostracizing.

28

How was Adam Perfect? He sinned....Duh

by DS211 in

jw
friends

well an elder brought this up with me and said he didnt understand how adam sinned if he was perfect.

i said i dont see how he couldve sin ed if he was perfect....but he had free will to choose.

i then told him that i thought if god wanted us to obey him the worst thing he could do was create us to have free will.....a side thought i had was:.

budbayview

Good question, I have pondered this myself.

Perfection does not change one’s ability to make choices, or one’s free will. If it did, then ask yourself how or why perfect angels and the first humans sinned? Perfection doesn’t make you a genius, or give you super physical abilities. You must still put data into the brain or learn. What accomplishments would there be left in life if we did not have to learn, perfect or not? It may and hopefully so, make us a better person because we have perfection. However, it is because we have the ability to learn, and get it right, without the forbearance of death or disease or physical limitations and obstacles. But, make no mistake, it still requires us to learn and experience life and gain wisdom to be a better person.

We are very close to perfection now, with few minor genetic defects. Provided we have no mental (that we are aware of) defects to prevent us from thinking. This erroneous business about only using a small percentage of our brain is bunk. I have heard it a thousand times, when ones in the hall would speak of perfection as if it somehow granted ones genius abilities. “We only use 10% of our brains.” they would say. “Imagine if we could tap into the other 90%!” Most of us currently use 100% today, intelligence is not gained by perfection, but rater time and experience. Living a few hundred years would certainly give one experience and wisdom. The only thing stopping us from this is time and initiative.

Since we have shown that perfection does not mean you’re a robot, then is Satan the cause or the manifestation of evil? And, if he is abolished, what does this change with respect to good and evil? It will only serve to remove the antagonist, of which he had purpose. Without that, we would not know what good is, because we would have no comparison to evil. So, do we see Gods purpose, his wisdom and reasoning in setting the parameters for us to learn THE lesson of humanity. He wants you to love him for him, and not because he will condemn us in the metaphorically defined hell, for eternity. He wants to know we are loyal above the superficial riches he can provide or withhold, but because he alone has our best interest, it is because we need him for that reason, there is no other hope. So he could have just said that, and he probably did, but to show the reality of this to his children and to prevent this from happening again, he addressed it, and allowed this universal play to proceed. Since our Father set up the rules, he knows them with expert authority and since he created us, he knows us, again with expert authority. Therefore, to assume he did not anticipate the failures of Adam and Eve is underestimating the Grand Creator. Notice, I used the word anticipate. That is because, there is a difference between a hypotheses or educated guess, and the assurance of knowing an outcome. And, if he had an assurance of the outcome, that represents pre-destiny, and we are all clear that was not the case due to the implications. In other words, what is the challenge of living a life knowing each outcome? No fun at all, right?

When he determines we have the lesson learned, he will restore his theocracy….hopefully before we blow ourselves up.

my2cents

24

New Here, Introduction

by budbayview in

jw
friends

i have been eyeing this site for some time (years) and finally joined.

i was born in the organization, and grew up not too far were c.t.

russell started it all.

budbayview

Hi all,

I have been eyeing this site for some time (years) and finally joined. I was born in the organization, and grew up not too far were C.T. Russell started it all. I remember as a child attending at the congregation in Oakland, many visits by Schroeder, meeting his family and watching his slide presentations of trips to the holy land. This was a grand hall, before they started cloning them. It had two floors, three schools, a baptismal pool, and a great library. I remember during the meetings, I would sneak into the library and look through all of Russell’s old books and Zion’s publications, they had quite a collection.

My Father died when I was young, and that just solidified our convictions (at the time). My mother carried on, and this was during the time period when smoking just became a DF offence. She tried to hide it, and finally was confronted, and DF. I studied and continued on through my time at high school, did the recommended route and not attended college. Although, I must admit, this was not my mother’s wish and at her insistence, I went 2 years at a tech school, and received a (worthless) associate’s degree. I commenced my career, and was a bit naïve and started sowing some oats, so to speak, all the while harboring terrible guilt. I met my wife to be at a bar, obviously not a witness, and was married. I moved away and could not stand the guilt (fear), started studying and brought my wife in. For whatever reason, I won’t bore you the details, we faded away after the years. After a long DF, my mother finally quit smoking and was reinstated, I have two sisters, one in the truth (although a hypocrite sorry to admit), and one not. During the early years, my mother brought in most of her siblings. My first cousins aunts and uncles are still in the truth.

My fading started out with terrible guilt and fear, and moved to resolving some long standing spiritual issues. In that quest, I tried to prove what I learned was the truth, and the more I dug, the more the fabric of my faith in the WTBTS started to disintegrate. It was scary balancing not wanting to oppose Jehovah and trying to reconcile my spirituality. Although I could not whole heartily agree with the WTBTS, and most organized religions in general, I am still very spiritual and have never stopped learning about my Father.

The apocalyptic nightmares finally subsided, and my latest quest is determining the authenticity of the bible cannons. I am having issue with its canonization during the Niceno–Constantinopolitan Creed and Emperor Constantine’s involvement. Seems like a bit of an oxymoron that we hold firm the bible as holy, but is was in the hands of the early Catholic church and Roman political system at inception. Add to that, the issue of reconciling texts of The Sumerians, Mesopotamians, Babylonian’s, Egyptians, and Greeks, that all predate any Old Testament writings, and I think there is a good bit to be sorted out…in another thread.

82

Who are the real WT puppet masters ?

by cookiemaster in

a few days ago i posted my estimations about how much the wt actually makes a year.

you guys were all really helpful and provided a lot of useful info.

a good estimate would be 2-3 billion dollars a year.

budbayview

Good question, and I might phrase it differently. What is the motivation? Find the motivation and you find the source.

What the point if it all? Money, power, sex, drugs, what is their motivation? Or are they totally disillusioned? Just another notch in the belt of the ruler of this world?

81

Do you frown upon tattoos?

by confusedandalone in

i am very interested in hearing from people who really think that people with tattoos are somehow weird or cagey individuals.

i would just like to get your outlook on this matter.

today i was in a grocery store and i sawe this guy with his two kids and his wife shopping.

budbayview

To me it falls into the same category of most overt authoritative ideologies. It we were created to all look the same, then we would all look the same, but we do not. Does God really care if we have long hair or a beard or a tat, or if we loved our neighbor and helped our fellow man?

We have all been socialized into “the norms”, but in actually it is all discriminating. At the end of the day, what we look like, dress like, and how we groom ourselves, has nothing to do with matters of real importance. As a matter of fact the removal of facial hair in America was popularized by aging men whose gray beards gave away their age. So in our vein society, they started shaving to look younger. It has nothing to do with anything else. That said, our survival (in this crazy word) depends on our ability to recognize and adapt to the situation. If you live in a conservative town, then dress and groom and cover the tats. If you live in a less conservative town be yourself then.

Personally, I have no issue with tats. Additionally, If tatt’s are taboo, just curious about branding then? Because a big branding event occurred in the Old Testament, it was called circumcision….

57

Are Evolution & Morality Mutually Exclusive?

by shadow in

there are a couple of long threads going right now about evolution & abortion.. .

if evolution were true, how could there be any basis for morality?.

budbayview

Evolution is a broad term. If discussing Darwin’s theory of evolution by natural selection, I believe it still fits into intelligent design. The premise for survival and adaptability was programed in from the beginning, so the behaviors that support that are engineered from the grand designer. There is no other way to support a diverse biology and ecology. Change is in enviable, and we see evolution all around.

Now, cross species evolution, I am not so much a fan. I realize this is off topic, but I can even wrap my head around the big bang theory, as long as it was God pulling the trigger.

Concerning morality, I do not understand the connection to evolution? However, I will add this. If you had to govern a small community, how would you keep anarchy at bay, how would keep everyone safe, and provide fair justice? Religion and God have nothing do with morality, it did not stop Cain from killing Abel did it? You can argue where your morality (sense of right and wrong) comes from, but justice (dealing with consequences of moral infringements) is completely different. Take a look at The Code of Hammurabi for further information on how to govern your community.