Posts by Frank75

58

Really, What's So Wrong With The Jehovah's Witness Religion To You?

by minimus in

jw
friends

is it that bad??

is it worse than fundamentalists of every other sort?

are jws worse than radical muslims?

Frank75

they also used to serve up some meat in due season which I tried but gave me the runs !

Yeah. I hear NVR is giving out his share of "meat in due season" these days too!

Frank75

16

Romans 14 describes law on blood as "conscience matter"?

by M.J. in

romans 14 shows that some jewish christians in rome abstained from meat, while others did not.

apparently there was a bit of a tussle between the two camps.

now the big question is why exactly did some feel they needed to abstain from meat?.

Frank75

It seems very clear that either Paul had never heard of the so-called "apostles' decree" or he didn't regard its contents as authoritative.

Was it a decree? Well Paul was there according to the narrative and it can be easily proved that he did not think so. Perhaps there is still a little Dub earwax blocking a proper hearing of the message.

Could the concluding comments on blood better be described as a footnote to a lengthy debate about the Jewish custom of circumcision? That was the purpose of the gathering to begin with.

Take a look at what Paul did in the very next chapter 16:1

So he arrived at Der´be and also at Lys´tra. And, look! a certain disciple was there by the name of Timothy, the son of a believing Jewish woman but of a Greek father, 2 and he was well reported on by the brothers in Lys´tra and I·co´ni·um. 3 Paul expressed the desire for this man to go out with him, and he took him and circumcised himbecause of the Jews that were in those places,

They had just determined, and Paul had argued for, that this practice wasn't necessary. But yet he goes out and does it to Timothy what seems like the next day. Decree? I would argue not. But that is my opinion.

Look at why he did so, goes back to what James said to the gathering in Jerusalem.

So as to not offend the Jewish majority, both inside and outside of the Christian community.

Advice was take it or leave it opinion.

Frank75

58

Really, What's So Wrong With The Jehovah's Witness Religion To You?

by minimus in

jw
friends

is it that bad??

is it worse than fundamentalists of every other sort?

are jws worse than radical muslims?

Frank75

There you go! I am sure there is something edible and worthwhile that you can get out of that apple.

Enjoy!

Frank75

16

Publisher Pioneer Elder CO JC GB and all the titles

by NotaNess in

jw
friends

did you ever feel like these all were like a military chain of command?.

and i think i'm just realizing this, but are females not allowed to give talks, or is that not correct?

if not, i know in scripture (1 timothy) it talks about women not being "teachers" of men, or something similar, but when i think back.....at work, i never hear of the females having ever given talks, i always here about the guys.. if i'm correct, as a female in the wts, did that t you off or were you relieved of not having to deal with it anyway?.

Frank75

The whole organizatioin is much more structured and modelled exactly per any typical worldwide sales company rather than the pattern of the first Christian congregations.

I remember figuring out just before we left that the JW religion had in fact been patterned after First Century Judaism and not Christianity as we were often told.

Frank75

16

Romans 14 describes law on blood as "conscience matter"?

by M.J. in

romans 14 shows that some jewish christians in rome abstained from meat, while others did not.

apparently there was a bit of a tussle between the two camps.

now the big question is why exactly did some feel they needed to abstain from meat?.

Frank75

As for the blood discussion I don't have the reference in front of me right now but in the Law an arrangement was made for allowing a family who found their farm animal in the field already dead to not have to suffer the loss of the meat. They could go ahead and eat the meat but needed to recognize the law on blood by remaining unclean for a time and possibly some other requirement I don't remember exactly. But the point is there was no death penalty involved. On the contrary there was a recognition of the families circumstance and they were not made to suffer the loss.

TTC:

Here is the reference you are talking about.

(Leviticus 17:14-15) . . ." 15 As for any soul that eats a body [already] dead or something torn by a wild beast, whether a native or an alien resident, he must in that case wash his garments and bathe in water and be unclean until the evening; and he must be clean.

Also they were allowed to sell it to avoid the financial loss too.

(Deuteronomy 14:21) 21 "YOU must not eat any body [already] dead. To the alien resident who is inside your gates you may give it, and he must eat it; or there may be a selling of it to a foreigner, because you are a holy people to Jehovah your God.. . .

How would that make sense if the law on animal blood was binding on all mankind descended from Noah?

Leaving the dubs has taught many of us how little we knew of what the bible actually says.

Frank75

16

Publisher Pioneer Elder CO JC GB and all the titles

by NotaNess in

jw
friends

did you ever feel like these all were like a military chain of command?.

and i think i'm just realizing this, but are females not allowed to give talks, or is that not correct?

if not, i know in scripture (1 timothy) it talks about women not being "teachers" of men, or something similar, but when i think back.....at work, i never hear of the females having ever given talks, i always here about the guys.. if i'm correct, as a female in the wts, did that t you off or were you relieved of not having to deal with it anyway?.

Frank75

I didn't think so for a long time. I always felt the dubs were just a "classless" society. cough! snic!

However when I was being removed as an MS once, the CO who was upset that I had sent a letter of complaint to Brooklyn's Service Desk. (bypassing the Canadian branch, they were none to pleased either)

So I furrowed my brow in puzzlement and asked respectfully, "is there something I did wrong?" He actually said, "no comment". I looked behind me as if to look for the 60 Minutes camera crew!

That is when he took out a piece of paper and drew a big triangle. At the top he wrote Jehovah, then Jesus, then the "Faithful slave class", GB & WTB&TS, Zone, District and CO's, Elders, MS and publishers at the bottom. He then drew a line starting from the MS's with a big exagerated curve ending back at the GB & WTB&TS! He then said, "does that seem like a theoacratic way to handle things in the congregation?" I said, "Hmmm, you may have a point there brother. So can I ask you then? Would it also be wrong to bring our concerns to Jehovah at the top?"

You know these guys just make it up as they go along! But as far as the "pyramid" structure chain of command thing goes? That goes back to even the days of RF!

The top flow chart appeared in a Dec 15th 1971 Watchtower. At the next meeting I brought him a photocopy of the above pyramid which shows that a line goes straight from the Ministerial Servants up to the GB. He just lowered his head and walked away.

There was no JC formed to investigate his obvious apostate teachings! LOL

See what all of you faders are missing out on!!

Frank75

381

Were you or someone you know sexually molested by a Jehovah's Witness ?

by flipper in

due to the fact there are about 27,000 members of this religion that are known pedophiles, and the information about it is kept in a secret database file, i wonder how many lurking jw's as well as others are aware of the severity of this problem?

remember, it's 27,000 pedophiles that they know about.

what about the thousands that don't get caught?

Frank75

Still, I was a big 12 year old, she was nine. Lot's of touching and sucking involved.

Dave: It takes some guts to open up about an issue like this. Good for you.

However, I think a lot more of us would be considered child molesters if the definition you give above constitutes sexual molestation. Your being 12 and her 9 is basically 2-4 years difference. 12 is prepubescent and I would think anything that you did was more or less acting out or "playing doctor". Could have led somewhere, but not so bad in itself.

What really defines molestation is the abuse of power that comes from size and age difference. An older teenage Girl that forces her 6 year old nephew to sexual play is pedophilia.

In Canada that is how they define things. For example a 14 year old girl and a 15 or 16 YO boyfriends sexual play is looked on rather benignly however a 17 YO and a 6-9 YO would take on a whole other definition!

As sick and debased as it may sound, a 34 YO who likes to be around 14-17 YO girls is not a pedophile, he rather a Phebophilia, Hebephilia. In some cultures that is still accepted.

There is some good info on the net to define what makes a pedi!

Frank75

25

Which WT doctrines or belief is correct???

by vitty in

jw
friends

considering that most if not all of the wt beliefs are bs......................do you think any of them are right?.

i myself dont believe in hell fire, but foreverything else, the trinity imortality of the soul, the great apostacy or armageddon im still not 100 % sure.

so which ones do you think the wt are spot on with ?.

Frank75

I would say that they are simply misleading and incomplete. Much of the information they give you to 'prove' their point of view are half truths, circular reasonings, and straw man arguments. Many different parts of a discussion that would make their position hard to defends are simply not discussed. Of course they are not the only ones that do this, but their literature is notorious for it.

I think we have to acknowledge that much of the WT belief system did not originate with them at all.

It is hard to argue with the logic above and other similar comments made in this thread. This is why I am curious about ex-Dubs that still "hang on to" and maintain some of the beliefs, even if only one or two.

A guy just killed your kids, caused your marriage to break up and your family to shun you, and because of all the lies he told you and failed promises he robbed half your life, but, you still believe there's treasure buried where he told you it was.

It just does not follow that anything they have taught can withstand serious scrutiny.

Believe what you want, but consider if the belief you carry over is worth the brain cells involved, or the divisiveness it causes!

Like the Trinity or Deity of Jesus.

All of the arguments aside, pros and cons, just do not prove beyond a shadow of a doubt one way or the other. It is a draw based on the bible, and extra biblical arguments usually cut both ways.

If you want to believe in God it is just unimportant what he is made up of or how he exists etc. I would argue that it is what he teaches or stands for that is important.

If it was important to know exactly what God is made up of, and that the bible is HIS revelation to us, then this would be undeniably and plainly stated! Would it not?

I don't know if I can illustrate any better than this. We drove home from an assembly one time with family. The program was one that highlited the bible and reading/studying it daily or whatever. ("Doers of Gods Word" or some such rubbish). I made note during the assembly of how many times daily or regular bible reading was stressed. It was a lot, I think I counted about 70 times over 3 days. Also on the same program one dipstick went on and on about who would go to see a movie about war! This movie "Space Wars" (intentional misdirection or innocent slip he meant the latest Star Wars movie) he said, "is a fantasy built around the glorification of war and is therefore unfit for Jehovah's people!"

So as my knucklehead BIL asked the family what they got out of the assembly, what do you think they fixated on? So after about a 1/2 hour the comments died down and there was a kind of silence, so I spoke up. I said, "I kinda got the message that we really need to get back to reading the bible." The silence continued thereafter until we got home.

Doctrines and tightly held personal beliefs of this nature are stifling road blocks to compassion, mercy and love. They are easy to hang onto, but are valueless and not worth it!

Frank75

61