Posts by Frank75

20

Watchtower Comments THE MEMORIAL Video

by V in

check it out!.

watchtower comments exposes the memorial.

Elder Visits Regarding The Memorial

by Justitia Themis in

sort of.. i'm sitting in my home office last saturday, which is by my front door, working on the computer.

i watch through the window as my book study conductor and his wife come up to the front door.

they do not knock, or if they do, it is so light that with my looking at them, i still can not hear it.

Frank75

Don't be so hard on them. They needed to get to the coffee shop before the noon rush!

They know you would get all the love bombing you could handle on Saturday. Especially if two congo's are using the hall.

Such a love fest!

Frank75

17

What's the lowest meeting attendance you've ever seen?

by Open mind in

jw
friends

i'm talking about congos with at least 40-50 publishers in the file.

we had a nearby congo that supposedly had 60-65 publishers and their attendance on one tms/sm night hit an all-time low of 14. they had a ton of elderly/infirm.

they finally merged and now everybody's happy about the "increase".

Frank75

We had a congregation with some 130 or so cards in the file. Attendance was at least 90-120 most meetings (early 90's anyway)

One long weekend in July 97 we had 14 show up for the WT and Public talk. Schmuck boy here couldn't get anyone to give the talk so assigned himself....best talk I ever gave!

Frank75

11

some of you on here know that i have been fading for sometime now and stopped going to meetings for quite a while but the past month or so i have returned.i am still just not sure whether at the end jws will be found to be gods people or not.. well today i attended the early sunday meeting eager to try and do what i still think could be right and despite the doubts i have about the watchtower.. now to be fair a number of people came and spoke to me said hello and stuff.the majority just didnt bother.but what really got me today was a number of people who i thought were my friends were just hateful.i even held the door open for one of them and they just were so hatefull and gave me funny looks as if i had the plague or something.i left feeling like this is no diffrent to any other religion.

some nice and other people not so nice.all i could think of on the way home was so much for jehovah never forgetting what you have done for him.im starting to wonder whether the bible is really gods word after all.. i just feel im at a fork in the road and dont know what to do for the best..

Frank75

According to John, Jesus said God's people would be known by love, not what they believed. Paul later wrote that some disciples believed in observing the Sabbath and others didn't, but they were all brothers. It was not a big deal to him, just the Judaisers who were lording it over others.

Does any of this sound remotely similar to the Watchtower slant on things?

Use your feelings on this one, if not logic and your own eyes.

Peace!

Frank75

40

Did you read the whole Bible when you were a JW?

by outofthebox in

jw
friends

after an informal poll in my congregation (and many awkward responses) i found out that almost nobody had read the whole bible ever, not even the elders (surprise!).

brothers and sisters with 20, 30, 40 and 50 years as jws don't know what the bible says.

so, if god decides that a test is coming, will they pass it?

Frank75

I faithfully followed the scheduled reading through the bible many times as a JW.

Inexperience along with propaganda that I could not understand it on my own made me treat it like a chore and exercise.

After selling my business, with more time, I started reading the context of cited scriptures with an eye on what it could teach me about being a better person. That's when I started to see a gap forming with the bible and WT theology. Pretty soon I found myself reading the bible all the way through the meetings. My right arm would be black and blue from my wife elbowing me to "pay attention". Soon I was ordering CofC and Gentile Times and then when my wife gave the word, we just left!

I recommend bible reading to all JW's. It is nothing short of pulling back the curtain to reveal the old man in the Wizard of Oz.

Uzzah who was once in the Canada Bethel told me (I am paraphrasing) "Bethels requirement to read the bible straight through in one year, helped more people to leave the Watchtower Bethels than anything else, Most Bethelites read it so fast nothing stuck, and others didn't read it at all, just said they did".

I also recommend it for some XJW's who although they are happy to have left, still may carry some doubt or hold on to some of the teachings. Regardless of what your religious, theological or philosophical disposition is at the end of it, the result should be closure and liberation.

Frank75

27

Glowball Worming: Is the science settled?

by BurnTheShips in

it looks like the scientific "consensus" is not really there, is it?.

.

Frank75

In a paper Christy et al. 2007 the following comments are made by John Christy with regards his criticism of global climate modeling as it relates to the debate:

First, it is apparent that we have little skill at reproducing and predicting changes on regional scales of the size up to a region like conterminous U.S. Secondly, it is therefore far more difficult to predict the climate effect of a particular policy aimed at altering current emissions of greenhouse gases (by small amounts) and thus somehow "hold back global warming". In other words, we are unable with any confidence to predict or detect climate outcomes from Kyoto-like policy options, especially on the scale where our citizens live.

Even though Christy has been involved with papers in favor of AGW does Christy embrace the main argument about CO2's involvement?

In the following testimony I will first describe how a carefully reconstructed time series of temperatures in the Central Valley of California indicate that changes since 1910 are more consistent with the impacts of land-use changes than the effects currently expectedfrom the enhanced greenhouse theory. (ie CO2)

His critique of the present data?

This and other research points to the need for a better temperature index than what is used now over land: daytime temperatures, rather than the average daily temperatures (used now), are more directly representative of the layer in the atmosphere affected by greenhouse gases. Secondly, I will describe results from two papers which examine our knowledge of atmospheric temperatures as they relate to the surface. The results point to a more modest atmospheric warming than anticipated from our current understanding of the enhanced greenhouse theory. Further, I argue for an independent program with significant funding to evaluate climate model simulations and projections with a healthy, objective eye.

So referring to his study last year of the San Joaquin Valley (inhabited with accompanying land use, irrigation etc) and Sierra Nevada (mostly uninhabited) climate using recorded data from the last 100 years He relates what the figures extrapolated for those two different regions, please note why there is a need to proceed with caution before jumping to conclusion such as the cause of "Global Warming":

We discovered that indeed the nighttime temperatures in the 18 Valley stations were warming rapidly, about 6°F in summer and fall, while the same daytime temperatures fell about 3°F. This is consistent with the effects of urbanization and the massive growth in irrigation in the Valley.

And the nearby Sierra Nevada?

The real surprise was the composite temperature record of the 23 stations in the central Sierra foothills and mountains. Here, there was no change in temperature. Irrigation and urbanization have not affected the foothills and mountains to any large extent. Evidently, nothing else had influenced the Sierra temperatures either.

Quelle suprise! So what about the models being used AT THE PRESENT TIME?

Because these results were provocative, we performed four different means of determining the error characteristics of these trends and determined that nighttime warming in the Valley was indeed significant but that changes in the Sierras, either day or night, were not. Models suggest that the Sierra’s are the place where clear impacts of greenhouse warming should be found, but the records we produced did not agree with that hypothesis.
For policymakers in California this result is revealing. It suggests that to "do something" about warming in central California means removing agricultural and urban development rather than reducing greenhouse gas emissions.

The paper then goes on to describe similar micro applications of the climate models in other areas, such as the SE USA and Midwest. Applying the models show warming trends there too while the macro data shows there has actually been moderate cooling.

[Note: as a follow-up to Christy (2002) on Alabama temperature trends, we examined the output from 10 climate models. All models showed a warming trend for 1900 to 2000 in the SE U.S. However, observations show a cooling trend (common throughout the SE U.S.) Additionally, Kunkel et al. 2006 perform a similar analysis for the central U.S. where temperatures have not experience a warming trend while model simulations of the same period do. Kunkel et al. identified this feature in the central U.S. as a "warming hole".]

The conclusion I draw is the same as Christy. Applying our expertise and resources to flawed data and projection models may give us a feeling of well being, but nothing will have substantially been accomplished with regard to the problem of global warming/climate change.

The bottom line here is that models can have serious shortcomings when reproducing the type of regional changes that have occurred. This also implies that they would be ineffective at projecting future regional changes with confidence, especially as a test of the effectiveness for specific policies. In other words it will be almost impossible to say with high confidence that a specific policy will have a predictable or measurable impact on climate.

Given the warnings of people like Reese and Jared Diamond (Author of Collapse), it is vital we do something when society is faced with verifiable predictable catastrophe and or collapse.

Our societal problem is not Global warming per se, because the historical temperature of earth has been all over the place, but rather we should focus on unsustainable consumption of resources. The last time I checked, those resources included much more than fossil fuels. Rather than unreliable computer models that can be shown to be weak, questions of conservation and resource management need not require much more than a slide rule, calculator or spreadsheet. Population control should be our first order of business. Oh and possibly a little diet and exercise!

The debate continues.

Frank75

33

Four years late. Just watched Passions of the Christ. I have a question

by shopaholic in

as you know this movie was banned for jws.

any faithful witness would not watched a non-jw bible movie (even though they do it all the time but that's a different subject.

) i watched it this pass week over a couple of days.

Frank75

What Jesus was killed with is not at all important as other posters have argued. If anyone wants to look at the WT position critically, you will find that much of their support dries up and blows away when you look at the sources WT uses to defend it.

I think what you will find as you study into cults and what makes them tick, that this is how they lure members in and then trap them mentally. Unique seemingly iron clad beliefs lead the member to dismiss anything that does not fit the prejudice they have been given. When the honeymoon wears off, the convert who has cut off old friends and family finds it easier to give in because, "Where else can I go?"

The cross vs stake argument is a classic. What other "Christian" religion doesn't embrace the cross in some way? So not only have you got him to leave his old belief system, but made all the others off limits.

Another one the JW's like to lean on is "We're the only ones going house to house!" Therefore any religion that doesn't go house to house is again, in their mind, off limits.

However anyone who has read their bible has seen that before sending his disciples out to preach Jesus said, " (Luke 10:7) . . .Do not be transferring from house to house."

Likewise, the cult leadership has sought to appear super pacifists by not only preventing members from joining the military, but even carrying weapons. The JW then dismisses any religion that allows its members to join the military.

But again Jesus told his disciples in his last hours, " (Luke 22:36) . . .Then he said to them: "But now ...let the one having no sword sell his outer garment and buy one."

Bring that text out at your next WT study and see if they aren't nailing you to a stake!

Frank75

43

Where has Nvrgnbk gone?

by BurnTheShips in

jw
friends

i haven't seen him around for a while!.

burn.

Frank75

He's gone back to the meetings

NVR!

Frank75

42

The appeal process is a joke!!!

by jakesnake82 in

it was pretty messed up.

i appealed and two of the three elders on my appeal commity were from our sister congregation.

when i turned in my appeal letter, the elder i turned it in to tried to talk me out of appealing.

Frank75

Knowledge, compassion, and honesty are things ppl can't handle or except for some reason.

Jake:

This is a time for sober reflection. Jesus said that these things would be the Hallmarks of his true followers. Sure there are good people in the JW religion, but when it comes to Love, "knowledge, compassion and honesty" is it exponentially apparent in the JWs or obscure and hard to find. Are JW's known for being Just, Compassionate and Loving or rather for knocking on peoples doors Saturday morning?

Trust your own eyes and heart in this assessment. Then look at the experiences of 100s and even 1000's of X-JW's on the Internet.

Can you honestly describe the situation of your personal experience in the following words of Isaiah?

(Isaiah 32:1-2) . . .Look! A king will reign for righteousness itself; and as respects princes, they will rule as princes for justice itself. 2 And each one must prove to be like a hiding place from the wind and a place of concealment from the rainstorm, like streams of water in a waterless country, like the shadow of a heavy crag in an exhausted land.

You will find your answer in logic and honesty, even in truth.

Frank75

42

The appeal process is a joke!!!

by jakesnake82 in

it was pretty messed up.

i appealed and two of the three elders on my appeal commity were from our sister congregation.

when i turned in my appeal letter, the elder i turned it in to tried to talk me out of appealing.

Frank75

If you firmly believe that you're repentant and are in an approved state with jehovah, and have confessed honestly to him, they are hard pressed to disagree, you just have to be prepared to follow it through.

The process actually works if you want it to.

Jeffreywhat:

I apologize because I do not have the time to look up your other posts here on JWD, to see where you come from so to speak. There does not seem to be much response to your comments either, whether that tells something I do not know. However your assessment is rife with naivety.

Yes I have heard of DF'ings being overturned, it does happen although rarely. Contrast that rarity with the rampant abuses of justice, fair play, human rights, decency and even biblical jurisprudence perpetrated by JCs all over the world.

What is even rarer than your case, is that such over-turnings are never about justice being done to the individual. What motivates a CO to come swooping in like this is to simply show on occasion who is ultimately boss in the pecking order of the JW hierarchy.

I knew of a case that was overturned by a crony CO for one of his stooges children. Even though I disagree with excommunication as practiced by many religions such as JWs, I would have to say that if ever there was a case to DF someone, the one overturned was it. It was simply a political move in the CO play book to make a statement, and embarrass some elders he takes issue with in general.

Rather than criticise our new poster Jakesnake82 for not "following it through" why not look honestly at the whole process that turns people into "sheep for the slaughter".

Why even the final and last "appeal" process is only explained in the un-circulated "KS" book. The unrecorded "Star Chamber" JC process requires that 3 men must inform the accused that he has this 3rd option. The KS book says, "although the accused has no further right to appeal the decision, if he persists in believing there has been a mistake he may put it in writing and give it to the Chairman who will forward it to the Society".

That is like the police saying to the wife who has been beaten, that if it happens again she should write out what he did to her and get the abusing husband to bring it down to the police station and they will look after it.

In my JC and subsequent appeal, I recorded the whole process. Since I still had a key to the hall I planted a recording device to not only record the meeting with me but also the discussion when I left the room.

When the JC came to the paragraph dealing with the "accused persisting in his belief" one of them said, "he is definitely going to do that!" The Chairman said, "Well, we just won't tell him then!"

Therein my friend lies one of the greatest problems with the JW judicial process. Since the rules are not published, meetings are held in secret, and an advocate for the accused (lawyer or someone who understands the process) is not permitted, then only those in the know can make the system work in their behalf to a degree.

That means that only elders, former elders and their immediate families can meet the process with any hope for a measure of success (if you can call it that). Where does that leave the uninitiated?

The process doesn't work, and it is not meant to work. It is designed to instill fear the same way the military used shootings at dawn to keep the rest in line.

Frank75