Posts by Gentledawn

300

ALERT: NEW LAWSUIT settlement - $13 MILLION

by Watchtower-Free in

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/135m-awarded-to-bible-teacher-gonzalo-campos-alleged-abuse-victim-jose-lopez-281031832.html.

(published thursday, oct 30, 2014).

thursday, oct 30, 2014 updated at 11:58 pm pdt.

Gentledawn

BOTR: IF the WT has/had a secret database so they had notice of pedophiles in KHs, throw the book at them.

Chapter Five
Determining Whether a
Judicial Committee
Should Be Formed
[...]

10. Though this is not an exhaustive list, brazen
conduct may be involved in the following if the
wrongdoer has an insolent, contemptuous attitude
made evident by a practice of these things:

• Willful, continued, unnecessary association
with disfellowshipped nonrelatives despite
repeated counsel—Matt. 18:17b; 1 Cor, 5:11, 13;
2 John 10, 11; w81 9/15 pp. 25-26.

[...]

Evidence Establishing Wrongdoing

[...]

38. If wrongdoing has not been established
but serious questions have been raised, the body
of elders should appoint two elders to investigate
the matter promptly. For example, there may be
just one witness. If so, it would be loving for the witness
first to confront the accused and encourage him
to take the initiative to approach the elders . The elders
can then allow the accused a few days to approach
them. (For the witness by himself to confront
the accused may not be advisable in all cases—for example,
if the witness and the accused were involved
in sexual immorality together or if the witness was a
victim of incest or rape by the accused or is a child
and the victim of sexual abuse. Or it may be that the
witness is extremely timid.) Whether the witness approaches
the accused or not, the two elders appointed
should speak with the accused regarding the accusation—
w97 8/15 p. 27.

39. If the accused denies the accusation, the
investigating elders should try to arrange a meeting
with him and the accuser together. (Note: If the accusation
involves child sexual abuse and the victim
is currently a minor, the elders should contact the
branch office before arranging a meeting with the
child and the alleged abuser.) If the accuser or the accused
is unwilling to meet with the elders or if the accused
continues to deny the accusation of a single
witness and the wrongdoing is not established, the
elders will leave matters in Jehovah's hands. (Deut.19:15-17;
1 Tim. 5:19, 24, 25; w 9 5 ll/l pp. 28-29) The
investigating elders should compose a record, sign it,
put it in a sealed envelope, and place it In the congregation's
confidential file. Additional evidence may
later come to light to establish matters.

---- "Shepherding the flock of God"

24

Show this to the young ones in the congregation

by EdenOne in

hopefully it will make them think.. .

.

eden.

Gentledawn

Quarterback wrote:

Did Sir Paul get a Higher education?

from the original post:

"Therefore, as a young person, you will never fulfill any career that this system has to offer."

Paul McCartney certainly fulfilled his career potential, imo.

17

Imperfect but 'Glorious Ones" daily text Oct.29.2014

by prologos in

.

Gentledawn

Wednesday, October 29
These men . . . are . . . disregarding
lordship and speaking abusively
of glorious ones.—Jude 8.

Obviously(?), such a spirit has no
place in the Christian congregation.
Older men in the congregation
are not perfect, just as they
were not perfect in the time of
the apostles. Elders may make
mistakes that affect us personally.
If that happens, how inappropriate
it would be for any member
of the congregation to react
according to the world’s spirit,
vehemently demanding “justice”
or that “something be done
about this brother”! Jehovah may
choose to overlook certain minor
failings. Can we not(? Why use a "not"
here, when leaving it out says the
same thing?) do the same?
Because of what they perceive
as defects in the elders, some individuals
who engage in serious
wrongdoing in the congregation (such as
questioning doctrine, or the source of
Governing Body's spiritual anointing,
although they claim not to be prophets,
etc)
have refused to appear before a
committee of elders assigned to
help them. This could be likened
to a patient who loses out on the
benefits of a treatment because
he does not like something about
the doctor.
w12 10/15 2:6, 7

--------------

"This could be likened
to a patient who loses out on the
benefits of a treatment because
he does not like something about
the doctor." -

Ya know, because going to a QUACK always works out in the end... NOT.

------------------

Jude chapter 8 (NIV)
8 In the very same way, on the strength of their dreams these ungodly people pollute their own bodies, reject authority and heap abuse on celestial beings (in some translations: "glorious ones" = celestial beings, or angels).

ALL English translations of Jude 8:
http://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Jude%201:8

35

The Blatant SEXISM of Watchtower!

by Island Man in

from my yahoo answers question here: .

"the bible says of deborah: "now deborah, a prophetess, the wife of lappidoth, was judging israel at that time.

5 she used to sit under the palm tree of deborah between ramah and bethel in the hill country of ephraim; and the sons of israel came up to her for judgment.

Gentledawn

All English translations of Judges 4:4
http://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Judges%204:4

New International Version, with footnote:

4 Now Deborah, a prophet, the wife of Lappidoth, was leading[a] Israel at that time.

Footnotes:
[a] Judges 4:4 Traditionally judging

14

Watchtower Dec 2014 page 4

by Mr Fool in

wt dec-2014 page4: "a bulgarian woman named irana rigthly observed, -it is not posspible to be close to god if you don t know his name.

".

if so many know his name, why this debate "jehovah vs yahweh" then?.

Gentledawn

Wt Dec-2014 page4: "A bulgarian woman named Irana rigthly observed, -It is not posspible to be close to God if you don´t know his name. "

And yet one of the first things that takes place during and after completion of the initiation (indoctrination) process of high-control groups is the loss of the person's first name (as in, no longer used).

"brother"/"sister" so-and-so. So is it really possible to know your fellow congregant if you do not use their personal first name?

In the "Meet the Mormons" video, the young man was called "elder"-only, no longer using his first name.

It's a process. Part of that process is the loss of one's personal identity and merging with the hive-mind/mentality. That's why "elder" Fields (the young man in the mormon documentary) no longer felt the need to talk alone whatsoever with the interviewer. What could be asked of him that his companions could not answer for/with him?

Oh, I don't know... how about how you were getting on after being forced to isolate yourself from your family and friends for 2 years? Are you okay? You had been crying earlier... have you settled out, figured out how to carry on from there?

JWSurvey has the video linked inside this article:
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/comparing-cults-the-most-effective-way-to-wake-up-a-loved-one

Lordy. Cults suck.

38

My jw mum threw us out.

by abbasgreta in

my brother (non-jw but became a christian 6 months ago) and i nursed my aged jw mother back to a semblance of strength over the last three weeks.. the elders were happy to pass the buck on to me, her da'd daughter and my bro.. he has been living with her for 3 months and has transformed her ill-kept home and garden and literally nursed her like a professional alone.

before i stepped in to help him care for her.

he repeatedly told her how much he loved her and was so caring, it brought a lump to my throat.. he has been going to church sunday mornings, telling her he 'was meeting up with friends' so as not to cause friction.but she knew where he had been.. we noticed a shift in her demeanour towards us (she knows i'm a church-goer) over the week-end and she started to.

Gentledawn

The CBE is not the Bible. The KJ was written from the scrolls. Read Ec 9:5 in the KJ, or even the NWT.

Yeah. Because, as JWs, we TOTALLY go to a strangers house and tell em they can look up the scriptures in their own NON-BIBLE.

And take note: my original reply has a link with ALL english translations of Ecc. 9:6, including both versions of King James:

http://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Ecclesiastes%209:6

Ecclesiastes 9:6 (KJV) | In Context | Whole Chapter

6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

---

Ecclesiastes 9:6 (KJ21 = 21st Century King James Version) | In Context | Whole Chapter

6 Also their love and their hatred and their envy is now perished; neither have they any more a portion forever in anything that is done under the sun.

38

My jw mum threw us out.

by abbasgreta in

my brother (non-jw but became a christian 6 months ago) and i nursed my aged jw mother back to a semblance of strength over the last three weeks.. the elders were happy to pass the buck on to me, her da'd daughter and my bro.. he has been living with her for 3 months and has transformed her ill-kept home and garden and literally nursed her like a professional alone.

before i stepped in to help him care for her.

he repeatedly told her how much he loved her and was so caring, it brought a lump to my throat.. he has been going to church sunday mornings, telling her he 'was meeting up with friends' so as not to cause friction.but she knew where he had been.. we noticed a shift in her demeanour towards us (she knows i'm a church-goer) over the week-end and she started to.

Gentledawn

JWs (and other religions) foist their interpretations as hard fact. The real fact is that an interpretation is just that. Quoting Ecclesiastes 9:5 doesn't prove anything about the state of the dead. But 9:6 sure does show that they have no part "forever" in what takes place under the sun. Doesn't that negate the whole "live forever/ressurection on a paradise earth" myth?

https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Ecclesiastes%209:6

Ecclesiastes 9:6 (CEB version) | In Context | Whole Chapter

6 Their love and their hate, as well as their zeal, are already long gone. They will never again have a stake in all that happens under the sun.

I don't know what's worse: finding out that you've been living under the edicts of a blatant cult or coming to a site like this with buttholes blatantly trying to recruit people who are newly/nearly liberated from it, too.

On point to the OP: if this is the UK, the Watchtower has come under scrutiny by the Charities commision for its crappy policies regarding the horrendous treatment of victims of pedophilia and rape. That commision needs to take a closer look at the internal workings of this whole watchtower "system of things". The fact that elders (not just in the UK, but here in the USA, too) pass the buck to the immediate family members is very telling (there are recent articles that state as much, too). The fact they have no infrastructure, no devoted charitable funds division ("world wide work" is done by an all-volunteer slave army. All buildings are funded by local congs, so no money drawn from "www" for that, either), no buildings devoted to homeless shelters, or single parents, or women and children who need shelter from an abusive mate, no disaster relief shelters or infrastructure, dedicated funds, what-not... etc, etc. The list goes on.

To think that your mum would be such a witch to the people who have physically cared for her, when the elders probably are/were encouraging her to "make a stand for jehovah", and then do f-all (nothing) for her before and after the fact. Yeah, that's the watchtower mentality alright.

So much Officer Doofy inside the leadership, yet they hold their followers in total mental thrall.

18

Love believes all things... Comment by a "Duke and Star"!! Today's WT!!

by DATA-DOG in

love believes all things.

what did paul mean??

he meant that if we love jehovah, we believe what we read in the wt magazine.

Gentledawn

Didn't read the study article, but wanna toss some thoughts out there:

We all know their jargon: "brother", "sister", "this system of things", "an encouragement to others", blah, blah, blah. But some terminology is there to reinforce the indoctrination, so much so that the words used whitewash the crap into something it is NOT.

•"Slave" (also "faithful and discreet") = Master
Don't believe it? That is why elder(s) go-to question when talking to a questioning "sheep" (baptized person) is, "do you believe the governing body is god's channel on earth today?" They (gov bod) are your Masters. They cannot be questioned, denied, defied or called to account when their terrible, life-wasting nonsense bears no fruit. Ya know, except for wasted years peddling their literature, dogma, doctrine. They require any listeners to change and conform. And to put donations into the cardboard cube collection plate in the back of the hall. Multi-million dollar corporation (definitely into the billions after seling Brooklyn properties) does not need your $10/month.

- Why exactly does the "world wide work" need money when ALL of it is done by volunteers?
- Why do new kingdom halls need outside-the-specific-community funding, when prior to this past May's donation changes (now mortgages are paid by each and every congregation, regardless of the age and state of their respective halls), when previously the whole thing (KH builds) was paid for by the local congregations, who were billed for the free laborers, as tabulated on to that same receipt.

Oft heard - "think of it as a donation of sort to the WT society itself". Translation: pay, pay and pay to the people who are gonna own the building in the end anyway. Most, if not ALL, KH and Ass. buildings are owned by the Watchtower leadership.

•"the truth" = many, many lies.
United Nations was the wild beast of revelation. Right? Whilst the patsies were huddling at tuesday/thursday book study groups, gaping in awe at such timely knowledge, the Dear Leadership (aka the whole Watchtower) were members of the UN [1991 = applied, 1992 - 2001 = full-fledged members, ones who annually renewed membership, which was a contractual agreement needing a signature every single year for it].

And that's just to name a few of their lies.

• All "talks" from the podium = one-sided diatribes
They are answerable to no one.
Here is a link to an article where a man at the microphone in a KH in Massachussets projects blame on to a bible study who had revealed to her study conductor that the local elders had only read the first page of the new donation arrangement letter. The elders were lying about what was really going on with the arrangement and the 4-page letter proved it. So instead of owning up to it, they lambasted her as an 'apostate' in front of the entire congregation, knowing full well that she was connected through a phone tie-in:
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/the-unbaptized-apostate-of-salem-massachusetts

• "apostate/apostacy" = anyone who will pull back the curtain and do what they tell you NEVER to do at all: look at outside resources about what exactly the Watchtower leadership is doing.

Oh, let us not forget the upcoming November 2014 WT study:
• being "holy" = blind obedience to leadership, even when they are proven false via scriptures/scriptural comparisons

Convoluted language used as a cover for deception is NOT what a person would expect their "loved" one to pull on them at all. Yet the Watchtower uses it constantly.

17

Jehovah's Witnesses - the Fourth Branch of Judaism

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

everything about the jws points exclusively to jehovah, the god of the old testament.. jesus hardly gets a mention.

they can't ignore him completely but isn't it interesting that the only publication they produced about jesus, doesn't even have his name on it.

it's simply called "the greatest man who ever lived".

Gentledawn

watchtowerdocuments.com/cases/Zalkin-Watchtower's_Points_and_Authorities_in Reply_to_Opp_to_MSJ_12-16-11.pdf

see page 7,

Wherein it reports WT lawyers saying in a court that.."Field ministry is not controlled by Elders,the congregation or Watchtower."

and "An individual publishers field ministry activity, including time and manner it is carried out is a personal matter between a publisher and his God"

see page 7 of the above.

Jehovah's Witness Elders Question A Brother For Not Turning In Field Service Time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vy3ZlxLEy6U

Oh, he went out in field service. He just didn't want to count or turn in his time. And that was a problem. One of the elders after the meeting states (23 minute mark) that he considers not reporting field time to be worse than pornography.... ya know, even tho Jesus said it would be better to tear your eye out than to look upon a woman with desire. Matthew 5

27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

Also at approx 10 minute mark of the video, one of the elderberries asks the man, "who in the bible is our mother?" WTF? They use Proverbs 1:8, stating that the Borginization is our mother. Jesus H Christ.

Proverbs 1:8 - "Listen, my son, to your father’s instruction
and do not forsake your mother’s teaching."

Just downright creepy. Talk about twisting the scriptures. That little tidbit just about takes the cake.

106

If you thought Tony Moris the Third was extreme, wait till you hear this other GB member!

by Island Man in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqzc2m8_mba&list=uus0vqkpnsxult0gsz6ahpta.

Gentledawn

Phrenology (from Greek: φρήν, phrēn, "mind"; and λόγος, logos, "knowledge") is a pseudoscience primarily focused on measurements of the human skull, based on the concept that the brain is the organ of the mind, and that certain brain areas have localized, specific functions or modules. Phrenology was first practiced by mystical groups that operated during the period of the Essenes. Developed by German physician Franz Joseph Gall in 1796, the discipline was very popular in the 19th century, especially from about 1810 until 1840. The principal British centre for phrenology was Edinburgh, where the Edinburgh Phrenological Society was established in 1820.

Although now regarded as an obsolete amalgamation of primitive neuroanatomy with moral philosophy, phrenological thinking has been influential in 19th-century psychiatry and modern neuroscience. Gall's assumption that character, thoughts, and emotions are located in localized parts of the brain is considered an important historical advance toward neuropsychology.