Posts by Odrade

42

How many of you know you want children or knew you wanted children before ?

by sandy in

jw
friends

did you always know you wanted children?.

if so how did you feel after.. if you do not want children, why?.

i am not sure if i want children and i am interested in all your opinions.

Odrade

Growing up, all I wanted to be was a mom. I desperately wanted kids. When Pater and I got married, we decided to wait until we bought a house, and wait 3 years. It was so hard to wait, I wanted to start a family RIGHT NOW! We bought the house at the three year mark, then started saying "another couple of years before we have kids won't hurt." Now it's been a few more years.

Last year we were still counting on our fingers how many years I had before that clock ran out. I remember thinking really hard about why we kept postponing starting a family. For awhile, I think it was our confusion about being Witnesses. I would think to myself, I can't raise my kids as witnesses, but I can't NOT raise them as witnesses. I didn't want to have kids while still undecided about religion. Then my father started talking about grandkids. He would say things like: "I can't wait till you have kids so I can take them in service/ read them the Bible Story book/ teach them about Jehovah/ sit with them at the meetings and help them answer..." on and on ad nauseum. I remember cringing everytime he started in, thinking I didn't want to inflict that on any child of mine. Grandfathers are supposed to want to take their little grandkids to the zoo, and play ball and feed them ice cream, play monopoly, go hiking... not spend all their time indoctrinating the poor kids.

The more I thought about it, and the further away from the "truth" we got, the more I realized that I was happy without kids. We have a nice lifestyle. We go where we want, when we want. I'm old enough now that kids kind of get on my nerves. We don't have the space anymore because we use it for our interests. I have hobbies, and am starting to get a real social life for the first time ever.

I started to discover that maybe the intense desire for children was to fill a void in my heart. I was looking for that "unconditional" love. Not someone who only acted like they loved me when I was pioneering or answering or attending all the meetings. I don't have that void anymore. If I had children, it wouldn't be to complete something missing in me, it would be because we really want them. Right now we don't, and we may not ever.

Odrade

35

Alcohol and the Witness

by Maverick in

jw
friends

when i first was studying with the duds, one of the things i found interesting is that duds are ok with drinking alcohol, "in moderation".

i never was a big drinker, usually one drink if i'm out and will have to drive and no more than three in any 24 hour period, even if i'm staying home.. i wonder if the fact the "the judge" was a rumpot contributed to the soft attitude on alcohol?

most of the brothers i knew were big drinkers and many of the older elders drank more with dinner that i drink in a weekend.

Odrade

LMAO @ Farkel! I must have sat next to one of them at the last Memorial I attended! Stinkiest brother ever!!!

7

Well, I'm about to do it.....

by razorMind in

jw
friends

inform my jw parents of my official stance on "the path they tried to teach us when we were young girls.

" <---(oft-used phrase to try to "guilt" us into coming back as jw's)

it'll be a first and a definite shocker coming from the likes of me...i usually avoid all religious discussion/confrontation on the few occasions i've visited them.

Odrade

Congrats to you on taking the reins. I wrote a similar letter this week, and am in the process of getting it on the computer. I feel in my gut that the confrontation with my family will happen within the next week or two. I wanted to have a full defense of why I'm not around that would NOT trigger judicial proceedings. Let me know if your letter works. I'm very interested.

(((((rM)))))))))

Odrade

18

Give experiences as to what it felt to be a female in the JW's..

by Country Girl in

jw
friends

i can tell you how bad it felt.

it felt bad every time i put some "doily" on my head cuz some fourteen year old baptized freak was saying the pryaer that day.

it felt good when i had to put a napkin on my head, knowing i was the oldest child, because my brother was baptized... and i was older and babysitting him.. to show "submission.".

Odrade

When I was growing up as a good witness, I always envisioned myself (because I always tried to be realistic) marrying a bro who had his own business washing windows, cleaning floors or some such. Of course we would be poor, because I would pioneer forever. I always hoped we would have enough money to have a child or two. Most of the brothers I knew barely made a living. Luckily, the only requirement I had written in stone was that the Brother I dated be smarter than I. Only one boyfriend wasn't, and we only lasted a month. A few years later he married a submissive little thing and popped out two kids. He was the only one who earned a decent living, and she spent every penny he made. Last I heard he was working three jobs to support her. I hope eventually they are well and truly out of the BORG so he can finally take a career advancement and support her in the manner she would like to be accustomed. Ah, screw it, I don't really care about them--HA!

The other brothers I dated were all lower-paid than the "dumb" one. All totally brilliant, but held down by lack of education. Several are out now too. I sometimes wonder if I might run into them on this board--wouldn't that be a hoot. My husband is smarter than all of them. He never bought into the idea of not earning a decent living/having a career. He is somewhat hobbled by his lack of higher education, which he resents--submission is not exclusive to women. When we married as still-active Dubs, we determined not to be co-owners of our cars, not to combine insurance as there was no financial advantage. We both maintain separate bank accounts, have no joint credit cards. I have full input in all decisions, as does he.

It's a good arrangement, but good JWs, who had some idea of how things were, were pretty horrified--especially about the separate bank accounts--as if it's any of their business. When we were engaged my parents tried their damnedest to break us up. Even calling the week before the wedding to tell me if I broke up with him, they would fully "support" me in getting re-established, and not to worry about the money. Their reason? They didn't think I could "respect his headship." They would never have understood if I had told them he didn't intend to impose his headship, we were mates, partners, equals.

When I look back, I can see how unhappy I would have been doing it the organization's way. I can see how much all these intelligent women who are saddled with numb-nuts for husbands who impose headship--how unhappy they are, and how much they resent having to kowtow to every whim of the "head of the household." --"can I buy these shoes, can I move the couch, can we take a vacation, can I have some money, can the kids sleep over at a friends..."

I also see what a bunch of hypocrites some of the servants are, they preach headship and womanly submission from the platform. But the wife rules the household with an iron fist. Talk about cognitive dissonance, no wonder so many JW marriages are secretly (or not so secretly) unhappy.

Don't even get me started on the stupidity of only brothers having privileges in the congregation either. That's a whole different rant. The whole system of adminstration is insulting and a joke. It was really brought home to me when I read C.T. Russell's will and realized that he meant sisters to have a pivotal influence on the writing and administration of the Watchtower. Rutherford, Knorr and the rest of them must have been some kind of women haters. Bastards.

Odrade.

35

Alcohol and the Witness

by Maverick in

jw
friends

when i first was studying with the duds, one of the things i found interesting is that duds are ok with drinking alcohol, "in moderation".

i never was a big drinker, usually one drink if i'm out and will have to drive and no more than three in any 24 hour period, even if i'm staying home.. i wonder if the fact the "the judge" was a rumpot contributed to the soft attitude on alcohol?

most of the brothers i knew were big drinkers and many of the older elders drank more with dinner that i drink in a weekend.

Odrade

Around here, it really depends if you are in a city cong, or a small town one. The small town I was raised in, almost never served alcohol at gatherings, no matter the size. You also didn't imbibe when going to a restaurant with friends. I even remember my father having to use discretion when having a beer after mowing the lawn. Our ONE bottle of liqueur (yes, you read that right--not even hard spirits) was secreted under the kitchen sink, behind the waste-basket.

Then I moved into the city and OH! what a difference. Dub friends in good standing taught me what drinking really meant. The elders drink, many having DIY keg coolers in their garages. Many gatherings have liquor or beer/wine served in excess. If one was in a restaurant and consumed that much, they would probably be asked to leave. I have attended parties of JWs--all in "good standing" where the aftermath was an entire bathtub full of draining liquor and beer bottles.

There was once a huge incident involving me and a drunk sister (elder's wife) at a party. My emphatic reaction, not as a Witness but as someone who doesn't like drunken rudeness directed at me, resulted us being completely ostracized from that social circle. For sure, in the entire 1-1/2 to 2 years we were still in that congregation, we never received another invitation to a gathering unless it involved bringing someone an expensive baby gift. (Word was out that we always gave really great gifts for events.) The really enlightening thing about all this was that the moderate (me) was thrown out of the circle rather having to clean house of all the drunkard servants and servants' spouses. Oh well, I don't know why I'm surprised.

The thing about all this is, I'm certainly NOT a teetotaler myself. I just finished a great Midori Marg before I posted this. We often drink wine with dinner, we drink lightly to moderately when we socialize (buzz - good, puke - bad), and my husband (pater) is something of a beer connoisseur. I just prefer to remain in control.

Odrade

24

Anyone have an extra "Learning from the Great Teacher" book??

by lisaBObeesa in

jw
friends

i would very much like a copy of this book.

does anyone have one they would be willing to part with?

i would pay for your trouble and for shipping... .

Odrade

I was told that the Society was only distributing one copy per household

Ummm, okay. At no convention I heard of, including the one we attended, was the "Learn" book (as they are calling it) only one per family. Everyone got one, and I believe there were extras. The map book was one per family though.

Do you think your family member told you that just to avoid giving one to you? Shame. Of course, in Canada it could have been different, so apologies in advance if I'm imputing wrong motives to your JW family.

Odrade.

BTW: I should also clarify by saying we only went to the Sunday AM session to pick up the releases and reinforce our story of "attendance" with some specific comments. We're still in the "closet." So we could have missed the "one per family" announcement. But I do have to say they certainly had a lot of them. And the family in front of us had like 5 kids, and they all had their own book. But then again, that family could have just been some of the "entitled" Dubs.

O

74

So, will you be voting for Bush next time?

by czarofmischief in

.

when the election rolls around, will you be pulling the lever for w?

i will, unless somebody comes along with the offer of free supermodels for me.. czar

Odrade

No, uggh.

16

How "Intelligent" Witnesses Think - and Endure

by metatron in

jw
friends

how can anyone with more than a handful of neurons maintain confidence in the watchtower organization?.

as dumbing down of the organization deepens, together with stubborn rejection of compassion and good sense, the .

pressure on capable, half-way sane witnesses is intensifying.

Odrade

LMAO! I thought he was speaking TO Maximus, not OF Maximus. See what happens when you try and read too fast? (haven't been here long enough to notice no Maximus posting.

Odrade

34

Female sexuality and the WBTS

by dmouse in

jw
friends

this is my last post for a couple of weeks as i'm going on holiday (st ives).

my apologies to those waiting for august's km, it's going to be a bit late!.

anyhow... i was enjoying amazing's recent thread where he picks apart the society's view on masturbation and, like him, realized that female sexuality is seldom discussed.

Odrade

bwahaahaahaa! I've read this article before and it still cracks me up. Cows! I knew a brother who would refer to that article obliquely whenever he had a cargroup full of sisters. The first time I ever read it, I laughed till the tears ran down my face and my stomach hurt.

Those wacky old men! (gb members) It was the 60s--obviously they thought they were fully insulated from women's lib. Geez!

Odrade (still laughing--COWS! heehee!)

88

I am so angry I am sick to my stomach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by Ravyn in

jw
friends

i just had a jw come to my door and i had to threaten her to get her to leave!

i told the woman right off i was 'apostate' and had no intention of changing it.

she kept asking me personal questions which i told her were none of her business and she said she would have the elders come by and i told her that if they came by the better be wearing bullet proof vests!

Odrade

First of all, ((((((r)))))). I've learned so much from you about facing fears in just a couple of weeks. My husband and I just found this place, though we have been fading for several years, and completely quit the dubs about 7-8 months back. well, except for one 1/2 morning of the district convention (never again) and the memorial. (???)

What you said here:

"But I think it is time for me to stop thinking of myself as any kind of JW, even a former one or an X."

has been key for me in learning my own mind. When the subject comes up, I tell people "I'm not particularly religious, I think I might be an agnostic." I don't say a word about the jws. It's very freeing. I've gone on to have some BRILLIANT and mind-widening conversations with people after that.

My heart goes out to you, but I think you'll find your own way out. Your TCM practitioner is wise. Look for your balance. Protect your lifeforce. And you know what? BE MAD! Suppressed anger and hurt often comes out of the body in physical ailment. Where else can it escape? An explosion of emotion can clear the body of so much physical toxin. I think you are right about your qi balance improving because of it, glad to hear your kidneys feel better. (never thought I'd utter that phrase.--HA!)

Odrade