Posts by Odrade

40

Need advice on a comeback to my wife: when she is in cult mode she says faith without works is dead.

by goingthruthemotions in

so i have gotten into arguements with my wife in the past about this cult.

now a days after reading steve hassan books...i just try and avoid anything jdub with her.

try to keep her in authentic mode..(not sure she really has one).

Odrade

I think this is one of the things that keeps JWs locked in. They have absolutely no comprehension of the concept of Grace. They truly believe that they can never be worth of God's love, but at the same time, God expects them to earn his love - the love that they can never be worthy of, even when they are working hard to earn it. Etc, etc, etc. It's the most pernicious example of circular reasoning, and I believe it derails their ability to think critically.

It's not unique to JWs, this subversion of Grace, most of the high control groups teach the same or similar, that you must prove your devotion and earn your salvation. It's quite incompatible with the concepts of Christ-centered christianity, although wholly in line with Pauline Christianity.

67

Good Netflix shows to watch

by Simon in

in the long winter nights you need some good tv shows to watch while you wait for the eternity between seasons of game of thrones.. we've watched marco polo (pretty good) and have just started watching orange is the new black which is not at all what i imagined (didn't know it was funny!).

house of cards is on the list too as we've heard good things about that.. anyone have any others that are worth seeing?.

Odrade

The Fall with Gillian Anderson. Next 5 episodes are about to drop.

7

JW Doctor mis-Illustrates a Blood Doctrine

by Marvin Shilmer in

jw
friends

today i added a new article to my blog addressing an article written by a jw medical doctor in a regional medical journal.

it's part of an initiative giving attention to how licensed medical professionals among jws have dealt with the blood transfusion subject.

what they say, how they say it, and what they don't say are all very telling.

Odrade

Poughkeepsie, NY. Pediatrician, and founder of Center for Bloodless Care at Vassar Med. He seems to have his bonafides. Appears he is a convert, came from a Catholic family, so most likely educated and in practice before converting. Interesting that his practice bio says he's a single dad with two adopted children. Just FYI.

It takes a special kind of mindless devotion to dogma to be a practicing pediatrician and still determined to uphold the ban on blood. Very sad.

22

What if.....the impossible happened?

by sparrowdown in

jw
friends

what if the almighty gb announced that all shunning will cease, and next minute all the people who have shunned you start calling and texting saying "hi, we're baaaack, we can talk to you now!".

.

what would do you do, and how do you react?.

Odrade

I can't see that ever happening in reality, but if it did, there are very few people I'd allow to be a part of my life again, if they came around, and I certainly wouldn't go looking for them. Many of my so-called "friends" when I was in, behaved in horrible ways, completely aside from WT doctrine or policy, and I would never choose them to be friends if I met them now, so a shared history is not enough.

The problems with my family also exist partially outside the realm of shunning, but at least if they would stop that crap, there would be a chance of communication in the future, although I'm 44 years old now and they are in their late 60s, so I question whether it would be a matter of "too little too late."

12

(Knock Knock) Who's there?

by Coded Logic in

if jws knocked on your door what would you say?.

i know jws don't really do "ministry" anymore (just leave special campaign tracts at the door and run away as fast as they can so they don't have to talk to anyone) but if they ever actually tried to have a conversation with me i wonder what i would say.

most likely i'd ask about matthew 4:8 where it says the devil took jesus to the top of an unusually high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world.

Odrade

They came here in July and I told them I was happy to be an EX-JW, and that they needed to add me to the do not call list.

However, in the past, I've brought up disfellowshipping, and how the Prodigal Son was welcomed back IMMEDIATELY, and that if disfellowshipping is LOVE and is supposed to be compared to a loving parent, how many loving parents would spank their children every day for a year, for an infraction that they were sorry about?

I have been piously told that I "just don't get it." Nope, I think I get it very well.

You can't really argue scriptural doctrine with most JWs, because they don't know their own doctrine, they are "proofed" against arguments by rote training. They parrot, instead of truly learning their doctrine. But since they equate WT policy with "Jehovah's loving arrangements," it can be somewhat more effective to equate those policies with loving their own children or small family members.

5

Question about the HLC and medical records

by OrphanCrow in

the hlc was established after i left the jws.

here in canada, the hlc was piloted back in the early 70s and that is when i had a personal encounter with the men in white shirts and shiny black shoes who took away my right to make medical decisions.. i am not very familiar with the internal doings of the hlc, other than that they hold the jw patient's life in their hands.. when the hospital liaison committee becomes involved in a jw patient's health care, what type of information is sent to the watchtower headquarters, and does the watchtower society receive copies of the patient's medical records?

if so, does the society maintain a database/library of historical medical cases that the hlc has been involved in?

Odrade

This is a very good question, because under ordinary circumstances HIPAA, which is a federal protection, would not allow WT access to your health information unless directly authorized. However, if a JW allows access for the HLC, it may be one of those grey areas (like talking to a medical professional who is submitting for insurance reimbursement, which automatically authorizes disclosure of diagnosis and procedures.) So it seems quite likely that allowing the HLC in as a "counselor" would allow sharing of information within their "network," and by extension, WTS.

However, I don't believe the HLC has ever been given the actual medical records, but more like they were present as a more authorized chaplain, able to sit in on (with patient permission) on consultations and directly advise family members on decisions to be made.

Remember that HLC pre-dates HIPAA, so who knows what the situation was prior to '96. FWIW, I don't remember my father ever storing any kind of medical records during the early days of HLC.

36

Site issues: Dec 27 Update

by Simon in

here's the current status:.

performance improvements have been made to make things slicker.. the "remember me" issue should now be fixed.. sign-in captcha can be affected by ad-blockers so consider disabling those.. sign-in email is case-sensitive - until i update this consider using your forum username instead.. ie stalls on "queued for processing" when posting a topic or reply but the post has been made (just navigate to active or refresh the topic if replying).. i will be working through issues today and contacting anyone who had sign-in issues to check if they still have problems.. many thanks again for your patience while we work through these teething problems..

Odrade

The same problem has cropped up for me once in Chrome (latest version, Win7 os). Refresh page shows reply posted though it stuck in "queued."

12

New Site Problems

by The Searcher in

jw
friends

hi simon - i'd sent you an email regarding this problem;.

i cannot see the captcha facility to enable me to prove i'm a humanzee and log-on.

so i could not gain access to my account and participate - despite trying numerous suggestions provided on the internet.. i tried one last thing - i downloaded mozilla firefox (never tried it before) and it by-passes the captcha function and gives me access now.. i look forward to getting acquainted with the new-look web site.. thanks simon..

Odrade

Getting used to the new navigation, but it all seems to be working fine for me, with the exception of the PM counter which says I have -1 new messages. :)

Thanks, it was definitely time for a forum update. (Also, I'm ecstatic to get rid of that silly fairy avatar.)

28

Be effective or people will die

by Odrade in

my husband and i have been out of the org for quite some time, but still find that old ideas and values come up and bite us on the ass.. lately, i've been plagued by an increase in the frequency and severity of my nightmares (which have always been an issue,) so i've begun to dream journal.

in just a few days, this realization cropped up.

i can't save people.. i've been blogging again recently.

Odrade

Smiddy and others who have written me kind words to reassure me that I carry no bloodguilt: Thank you. I do know this. My conscious thoughts are pretty well up-to-date on what is wrong with authoritarian religious ideology. Interestingly, I have very few symptoms of PTSD in the daytime, when I'm in control of cognition. I have some very mildly disordered behavior that mostly nobody notices, because it's in the form of thought processes that mainly result in my being a little more self-contained (stand-offish?) and/or intimidating than the average person. Like a protective mechanism, but not to such a degree that I stand out terribly.

At night when the subconscious is in play, however, I continue to have issues, which even a dozen years out of the Org, and after all of the research and deciding I've done, means that I still have symptoms of PTSD, such as nightmares and panic attacks.

I'm attempting to make the connections with early childhood values formed by controlling groups like this, and even though I know the concept of "bloodguilt," as supplied by the JWs and other fundamentalists, is utter rot, it seems that some of those ideas are still trapped in my subconscious.

Interestingly, since writing all of that down, and having the discussion here, I've had a nice week of reprieve from this sort of nightmare. So there is some progressive and therapeutic value in identifying the line of thought. At least for me.

Cheers, all! Don't worry too much about me. :)

28

Be effective or people will die

by Odrade in

my husband and i have been out of the org for quite some time, but still find that old ideas and values come up and bite us on the ass.. lately, i've been plagued by an increase in the frequency and severity of my nightmares (which have always been an issue,) so i've begun to dream journal.

in just a few days, this realization cropped up.

i can't save people.. i've been blogging again recently.

Odrade

Data I don't think I could go to one of those things, because while I might be able to remain silent when angry, one statement like that and I'd probably burst out laughing.