With the recent WT video of young children being encouraged to get baptized, I thought it would be appropriate bump this thread. The changes to the 2 baptism questions in 1985 were mainly a legal issue. Anyone being baptized now recognized the total authority of the WT organization. Keep in mind this took place only a few short years after the purging of true balanced Christians like Ray Franz from the organization as 'apostates'. The 1985 change to question 2 now made it legally binding to DF someone for disagreeing with any opinion of the WT organization as they had taken a vow that it was 'God's spirit directed organization'. There is no doubt in my mind that the recent 'encouragement' from the WT leadership to baptize young children is a calculated control move. If these poor kids do anything outside of the WT parameters, they can be threatened with or actually DF'd. Hard to scripturally justify as Jesus Christ himself was 30 years old- a legal Jewish adult- before he presented himself for baptism.
Lightgrowsbrighter
JoinedPosts by Lightgrowsbrighter
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17
When did the WTS begin to require baptismal candidates to answer 2 questions. What were they?
by AndersonsInfo ini need some research done so if anybody has the time, please see what you can find on the subject as stated in the title.. i clearly remember attending my first circuit assembly.
on october 30, 1956, i definitely answered two questions, along with about ten other people including my mother, not at the assembly, but we were standing at the side of a small baptismal pool that was in the basement of a kingdom hall in ronkonkoma, then a small hamlet on long island in the town of islip, suffolk county, new york, united states.. i know for a certainty that in 1945 candidates for baptism were not asked any questions but they were informed through their congregation that there would be a baptism and told where and when it was to be held.
usually the baptism was done at a beach and when candidates showed up in bathing attire, they were dunked, no questions asked.. so sometime between 1945 and 1956 two specific questions began to be asked of candidates.
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Beroean Pickets
by joe134cd inhi i've been reading a web sight called borean pickets.
http://meletivivlon.com/2015/05/09/may-tv-broadcast-on-tv-jw-org/.
although the guy writes some real thought provoking stuff, i sort of don't know what to make of it.
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Lightgrowsbrighter
BP is a great forum and has been very encouraging to me. I agree with leaving_quietly- their goal is an open, respectful, Bible based discussion forum for those of us attempting to address the cognitive dissonance required to be a thinking JW. One especially interesting thought they've shared is that those of us who are sincere JW Bible students and find ourselves disagreeing with the WT leadership are suffering a form of persecution, and have to meet 'underground'. How ironic is that?? -
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Is there anything about the JW's you still like?
by donny insome jw's on various postingshave asked me was there anything about the jw's i still agree with.
of course there are some things i agree with and some i partially do.
1. political involvement - while i do not agree with totally avoiding anything associated with politics, i agree that many of todays churches are way too involved in trying to sway their constituents beliefs.
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Lightgrowsbrighter
Good post Donny. Yes, there are some good things I miss about being a JW, including the points you made. I believe the bottleneck is at the top, and JW's are no exception. Many JW's are good, sincere people. They follow the leadership, and that means that all of the negative factors are there as well as the positive. I think if a few dozen arrogant leaders at the top adopted a truly Christlike humble attitude, the trickle down could be amazing. Unfortunately as Ray Franz pointed out, it doesn't seem possible with WT leadership. -
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Listen to Raymond Franz in the fascinating interview
by Terry ini don't know if many of you have watched this exceedingly in depth interview in which raymond franz expounds so many wonderful.
subjects with such precision and affection.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ttdozz-chg. .
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Lightgrowsbrighter
This humble brother has helped me so much. Many that watch and comment on this website have been 'beat by their fellow slaves' (Matt. 24:49) It is very ironic to me that Brother Ray Franz is viewed by many JW's as the 'ultimate apostate', when in reality, if all of the WT leadership had his humble attitude, many of us who have left the WT org would still be involved. In the org, we are taught that we are not in Jehovah's favor if we leave. Many who leave believe this and lose faith in Jehovah and Jesus. Ray Franz is a must read or listen, because he mentally helps all of those 'beaten sheep' to see that they are indeed still individually valuable to Jesus and Jehovah.
I know there are many active JW's that lurk here. For those in upper leadership, you will have a lot to explain to Jesus if you refuse to humble yourselves. (James 4:6-10) Paul made clear in 1 Cor 3:9, that even if you are a 'leader', you do not have authority over your 'fellow workers'. Ray Franz did not believe it was possible for the WT org to change as a whole. It is then up to all of you current leaders to prayerfully individually consider if your current course is really helping or actually destroying others spiritually. NOT something to take lightly!
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Michael Brown verdict discussion policy - take II
by Simon ini had originally thought that making the rules clear about what was and wasn't going to be allowed when discussing the michael brown verdict that we'd be able to avoid some of the unpleasantness that surrounded the subsequent trayvon martin trial discussions.. michael brown verdict discussion policy.
i had hoped that once the evidence came out there would not be as many people promoting opinions that contradicted it.
unfortunately, that appears to have been naive of me.
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Lightgrowsbrighter
I've read through many of the emotional pros and cons about this case. One of the things I learned early in life is that things are sometimes just not fair. But somtimes, what's fair or not fair is simply the perception of each individual. What seems fair to one seems unfair to another. This MB deal is a perfect example of perception. One thing that helps me is still having faith that there is a loving personal being(s) (Jehovah/Jesus) that will make things right. Most people participating on this website have some JW background as I do (45+ years). I know many have been burned by the controlling WT tactics and may have lost faith in a loving being. Perhaps I come accross naive and some will belittle my comment. But nevertheless, my belief helps me deal with injustice or perceived injustice. I hope and pray that things will ultimately work out well for everyone. In the meantime, we can all treat those in our personal circle with love, respect, and be peaceful. If everyone did that instead reacting with anger and violence, even this messed up world would be a much better place. To quote Rodney King, 'Can't we all just get along?'
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do jws even read and absorb mathew ch 5 and 6 ?
by sowhatnow ini mean its says right in there not to pray in public, or babble on, how many 10 minuet long babbling prayers have you endured ??.
where in the bible does it tell us anyone prayed for a large group of people publicly, or even in front of the family at their homes?.
it says in vs 14 to be forgiving, how can disfellowshipping someone be forgiving?
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Lightgrowsbrighter
Your average JW elder would- with their WT training- present to you Matt. 18:15-17 as proof that Jesus condoned DF'ing. They then cleverly cross-reference that to Paul's words in 1 Cor. 5:11 to 'stop keeping company' with such a man. It's useless to debate this with the average rank and file JW (as with every other dogmatic WT teaching). But if someone is open to it, it's clear from the context of Jesus words in Matt. 18 that the entire congregation would simply treat the indivdual 'as a man of the nations'. There is no secret judical committe, public slander/gossip, or even shunning. They would just simply no longer be viewed as part of the congregation. It's easy to make Paul's words in 1 Cor. 5 and 2 John 9,10 look like support for DF'ing. But again, looked at through the loving eyes of Jesus, clearly the legalistic judicial style of the WT is unscriptural and has done much, much more harm than good. JW's are told this keeps the congregation 'clean', but it is primarily a scare tactic and control mechanism. You are right sowhatnow. It would be amazing for the WT leadership to back off this hard line stance and apply the main part of Christianity- LOVE and forgiveness. Unfortunately, they seem to be getting even more harsh....
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Bill Cosby - too much smoke for no fire?
by Simon init seems like the list of people who are accusing him of rape and sexual assault is growing every day.
i'm skeptical of single accusations but the number of people and the similar stories seem overwhelming now.. it's not a conviction but to the court of public opinion ... guilty?.
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Lightgrowsbrighter
Perhaps a judicial commitee could be formed- that will get the bottom of this.
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why did they have to butcher the kingdom melodies?
by purrpurr inits not like there was anything wrong with them was there?
i used to love the old ones.
these new ones feel like the equivalent of a deflated balloon.. does anyone have the answer?.
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Lightgrowsbrighter
Purrpurr- I've had the same exact emotions as you about some of the Kingdom Melodies. I was raised in and involved for 40 + years as a 3rd gen JW serving in many capacities. For reasons similar to yours, I've been away from the org for several years. Some of my favorite old Kingdom songs still move me to tears (and I'm a guy thats not supposed to be emotional like that). I don't think that that's a bad thing... so many of us were in for the right reasons and those songs remind us of that. Jehovah and Jesus still love and respect us for our decisions to leave despite what many of our 'friends' in the org tell us.
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OKM 10/14: Preach the word; be at it urgently
by darkspilver inthat's their new monthly theme!.
that's all folks!.
dark spliver.
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Lightgrowsbrighter
The NWT translates the Greek word 'epistethi' as 'urgent' in this verse. Literally translated this simply means to 'be ready'. Basic bible research and a comparison with other translations show the broader meaning of this verse. Other translations render 'urgent' as 'be diligent', 'be prepared', 'be instant', and 'persist'. It's convenient to translate it as 'urgent' in order to keep the rank and file always on the edge of their seat and feeling guilty for not doing enough. It never fails to amaze me how bible translators can ignore the broad meaning of a verse, and focus only on a narrow meaning to suit their agenda. In this case, I think it's the WT's attempt to breathe life into the 1914 deal and whip the faithful into a frenzy for the '100th anniversary of Jesus invisible heavenly rule'.
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The GB gives awakened JW's 2 choices.
by BU2B inthis is classic damned if you do, damned if you dont.. the choice is.
1. be a hypocrite.
i just came to the realization that those of us still in and who know ttatt have only 2choices.
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Lightgrowsbrighter
*their