Posts by StarTrekAngel

54

WHEN people leave a cult...MAN landed on the moon? Or critical thinking......

by The Rebel in

jw
friends

i believe anyone who has voluntarily left a cult has shown they can adapt to new solutions, and have used " critical thinking" skills otherwise most would not have left.. yet i believe a safe place for support is still needed and this safe place i believe is searched for.. now i may not measure up to much in ways of education, but for me personally " critical thinking skills" = " new" a " new" way of thinking, that takes time for me the individual to be visual and to contemplate.

and the more i read about " critical thinking," the more convinced i am that i can live with the ridicule of those that claim i do not possess it.

furthermore i would say those that criticise others " critical thinking skills," often luck the sensibility and thoughts to snore, spit, and fart....nor would they understand a room full of tobacco smoke and cheap booze...where " critical thinking " can often be found in its most profound, in the most sensitive poems and "pictures" that were ever drawn.

StarTrekAngel

I will choose to be the bigger person and I will quit having to explain everything you get wrong and everything else you read into my comments. Unless off course you want me to continue. I got plenty of energy but I usually take a break from the forums on weekends.

I will respect your right to pick apart my semantics any way you want but I will also exercise mine when and how I choose to. You have shown as many emotions in your critical thinking as anyone else here. You just channel it in a different way. You whine just as much as you perceive anyone else doing it.

54

WHEN people leave a cult...MAN landed on the moon? Or critical thinking......

by The Rebel in

jw
friends

i believe anyone who has voluntarily left a cult has shown they can adapt to new solutions, and have used " critical thinking" skills otherwise most would not have left.. yet i believe a safe place for support is still needed and this safe place i believe is searched for.. now i may not measure up to much in ways of education, but for me personally " critical thinking skills" = " new" a " new" way of thinking, that takes time for me the individual to be visual and to contemplate.

and the more i read about " critical thinking," the more convinced i am that i can live with the ridicule of those that claim i do not possess it.

furthermore i would say those that criticise others " critical thinking skills," often luck the sensibility and thoughts to snore, spit, and fart....nor would they understand a room full of tobacco smoke and cheap booze...where " critical thinking " can often be found in its most profound, in the most sensitive poems and "pictures" that were ever drawn.

StarTrekAngel

Your last post that offers nothing. If I am wrong about the comparison with a CPU, then please enlighten me.

I never said that "garbage in-out" it was "specific" to databases. You are adding words, something you accused others of doing. I said "we name this" in the industry. There are other terms adopted in the IT world that come from other areas or industries as well. But you offer no contrary explanation. Only offer to point that I am wrong, nothing more. If you think this has anything to do with my feelings, then apologize and carry on with your explanation. I am going to, in the other hand, proceed to tell you why I keep on and hopefully you would see that this has nothing to do with my feelings. Hopefully you would realize that I am pointing to something that does not hurts me personally but it hurts the very purpose of forums such as this one.

I once posted a thread that you did not agree with it. Me having a second hand english, typed something that was not necessarily accurate. I tried to explain that but you did not accept it. I apologized. You somehow are able to keep track of other long discussions but you somehow lost this thread of mine at the apology acceptance step. Fine. No problem there anymore. I messed up unintentionally but such was not a good reason for you.

The next encounter with you, you enter a thread with the question "Am I needed here?". Now please correct me if I am wrong but if we just consider the question, it seems to me that you feel you have some qualifications to enter a thread as a self proclaimed moderator. I still gave you the benefit of the doubt. I am relatively new to the forum and I am not aware if someone has been appointed as such (Sorry JW term). When I say I gave you the benefit of the doubt, it doesn't mean that somehow I am here to delivery justice by means of judging your entry strategy. I mean to say that you stood out in the crowd by means of what you said, but as you can see, I did not respond as if I felt attacked personally or my feelings were hurt. I did ask you at some point, on your own thread, if you meant to act as a moderator and since the thread was about "evidence of claims" you asked me what the evidence suggested you did and I said I was asking what your intentions were, not what it looked like. You never responded.

Ultimately, in another thread, you went in and read into an explanation of mine as if someone had called to judge me. When I clarified my explanation, you never returned. Are my feelings hurt? definitely not. You don't define me and I can drop this thing right here and now. The problem is that such actions of yours do not allow the conversation to continue. You come in here and demand answers from everyone but you can excuse your lack of answers on boredom. Excuse me but I find such attitude disruptive to the nature of forums like this one, where we are supposed to be able to discuss matters from our own understanding, based on our own experiences and hopefully educate each other, not at your standards but at the pace and reasoning that we are capable. I see threads that make no sense to me. I skip them if they are not of my interest, I can not contribute anything meaningful or ask for someone to please inform me further.

So as you can see. I got nothing personal to hurt for. You don't hurt me if you don't agree with me. You do bother me if each and every time I open a thread or I post an answer in a thread that you did not start, I have to write with the idea that you will eventually come, not to share information for the benefit of everyone or correct something based on facts, but to pick apart my statements and that of others as if you were called for that very purpose. Express your opinion on the matter, state your facts and let the crowd read and reason on their own.

54

WHEN people leave a cult...MAN landed on the moon? Or critical thinking......

by The Rebel in

jw
friends

i believe anyone who has voluntarily left a cult has shown they can adapt to new solutions, and have used " critical thinking" skills otherwise most would not have left.. yet i believe a safe place for support is still needed and this safe place i believe is searched for.. now i may not measure up to much in ways of education, but for me personally " critical thinking skills" = " new" a " new" way of thinking, that takes time for me the individual to be visual and to contemplate.

and the more i read about " critical thinking," the more convinced i am that i can live with the ridicule of those that claim i do not possess it.

furthermore i would say those that criticise others " critical thinking skills," often luck the sensibility and thoughts to snore, spit, and fart....nor would they understand a room full of tobacco smoke and cheap booze...where " critical thinking " can often be found in its most profound, in the most sensitive poems and "pictures" that were ever drawn.

StarTrekAngel

It means they may have some critical thinking skills, not necessarily that they do.

It seem like you stated that you can have some critical thinking but not all of it. Not sure I understand that under the definition of critical thinking. Bolds mine.

statement by Michael Scriven & Richard Paul, presented at the 8th Annual International Conference on Critical Thinking and Education Reform, Summer 1987.

Critical thinking is the intellectually disciplined process of actively and skillfully conceptualizing, applying, analyzing, synthesizing, and/or evaluating information gathered from, or generated by, observation, experience, reflection, reasoning, or communication, as a guide to belief and action. In its exemplary form, it is based on universal intellectual values that transcend subject matter divisions: clarity, accuracy, precision, consistency, relevance, sound evidence, good reasons, depth, breadth, and fairness.

As you can see, critical thinking has more in common with a computer CPU than it does with the amount of knowledge that you hold. In database terms we name this "garbage in-garbage out". A computer is not any better than the information it holds. If you provide the right information it can process it and give a good outcome but you can not fault the CPU if the information isn't there. This is why you will get a bad response if you generalize 'lack of critical thinking' under something that could be defined as 'ignorance'. You are pretty much telling someone that they don't have a brain.

That not responding in such cases rests credibility to your views. Is a matter of honor, wether you are right or wrong. But that is fine, you don't have to. You owe the answer, not to me, but to your ideals.

13

Drama played at pioneer school

by StarTrekAngel in

i was having breakfast at home earlier this morning when my mil sat down at the table.

she started re hashing her previous day with us (wife and myself).

she was relating a story she got from another close relative who just finished the pioneer school.

StarTrekAngel

Yes. That was the most shocking part to me. Since I walked into the conversation when it had started, I missed the part where this had taken place. It wasn't until she was done that I asked again.. where was this at? I was assuming all along this was during some sort of social gathering. JWs in my area have the custom of putting up plays done by publishers to celebrate pioneers. I was shocked to hear this was during a pioneer school. Now let me clarify, this wasn't official WT drama. This was put in front of the school as a sort of closing ceremony. But still, the fact that someone who is there to teach pioneers allowed this message to be played, means they support the idea.

54

WHEN people leave a cult...MAN landed on the moon? Or critical thinking......

by The Rebel in

jw
friends

i believe anyone who has voluntarily left a cult has shown they can adapt to new solutions, and have used " critical thinking" skills otherwise most would not have left.. yet i believe a safe place for support is still needed and this safe place i believe is searched for.. now i may not measure up to much in ways of education, but for me personally " critical thinking skills" = " new" a " new" way of thinking, that takes time for me the individual to be visual and to contemplate.

and the more i read about " critical thinking," the more convinced i am that i can live with the ridicule of those that claim i do not possess it.

furthermore i would say those that criticise others " critical thinking skills," often luck the sensibility and thoughts to snore, spit, and fart....nor would they understand a room full of tobacco smoke and cheap booze...where " critical thinking " can often be found in its most profound, in the most sensitive poems and "pictures" that were ever drawn.

StarTrekAngel

You still didn't accept my apology.

I just can't wrapt my head around this last thing you said. it means they may have some thinking skills? but they don't? Sorry, excuse my stupidity.

I don't think I can make it any more clear for you. You accused me of having "pretend knowledge" in another thread and then you went silent. You seem to get conveniently "bored" or "busy". I am busy too. I don't start arguments I know I won't have time to finish. I have a job too.

Anyway, to answer more in line with Cappytan's perspective. I think I had the critical thinking skills to see this cult for what it was all along. What I lacked was the information that needed processing. Namely history of the cult and past fiascos. Critical thinking is not the cake mix, is the mixer. If yo came to me and told me I did not have critical thinking skills I would have taken offense, because in my limited knowledge of the situation I was under the understanding that I was fine. The other half of the debate (the cult) also managed to convinced that I indeed had critical thinking skills and that is why I was in the cult. When the other information required came up, then I was quickly able to see the light. In other words, I was ignorant, not incapable of reasoning based on facts. I don't min d people calling me ignorant. I know I ignore many things.

20

How Scary Are Circuit Overseers Now?

by minimus in

jw
friends

back in the day, when the co came to the congregation, it was quite stressful for the elders and often, the rank and file.

.

is it as big a deal as it used to be?.

StarTrekAngel

Oh and the video opened with the reference to Paul as a "traveling overseer of the first century congregation". The video compares the modern days CO to Paul. I guess they forgot the part where Paul worked to earn a living.

20

How Scary Are Circuit Overseers Now?

by minimus in

jw
friends

back in the day, when the co came to the congregation, it was quite stressful for the elders and often, the rank and file.

.

is it as big a deal as it used to be?.

StarTrekAngel

LOL. Just last night in our meeting, during the local needs section, they pulled up the video projector. We were told that they org wanted us to see this video before the next visit. The whole theme of the video was about the love that CO's have for us. There was an noticeable amount of "we love each and everyone one of you" despite not really knowing you. We miss you when we leave, etc etc. The mention was made that some people think that they are there to chastise and feel scared but they wanted to assure that they were there with the intention of working together. There was also an insistence on "supporting" the visit in "any way we can"

13

Drama played at pioneer school

by StarTrekAngel in

i was having breakfast at home earlier this morning when my mil sat down at the table.

she started re hashing her previous day with us (wife and myself).

she was relating a story she got from another close relative who just finished the pioneer school.

StarTrekAngel

I was having breakfast at home earlier this morning when my MIL sat down at the table. She started re hashing her previous day with us (wife and myself). She was relating a story she got from another close relative who just finished the pioneer school. I got into the conversation half way so I did not know if this happened in a social gathering or something else. She was referring a play that went on as follows...

One brother played the role of an angel. He was standing guard at the entrance of paradise. Another brother approached. I guess either after the big A or resurrection. He wanted to enter the paradise but the angel stopped him and said

Angel- I need to see if your name is written in my book

Brother- it should be

Angel- I don't see it here and that means you many not enter but lets us find out if there is a way we can help you. Did you attend all meeting?

Brother- I believe I did.

Angel- Lets us ask. Chair (as in chair from the KH), did he attend all meetings?

Chair- Yes he did, but for the most part, he kept me warm. Nothing else

Angel- Fair enough. Insight book, did he read you?

Book- (coughing) Not so much, that is why I am covered in dust

Angel- Watchtower magazine, did he ever picked you up and study you?

WT magazine- No not really, and considering that I have lost weight, he should have been able to. (this las one really made me laugh. Lost weight=got thinner)

In a nutshell this concluded the play. It was only then that I realized that this wasn't some brother trying to play artist. This was at the pioneer school. There was a few other examples but this were the highlights. Nowhere there was any questions to wether this brother was honest and loving or if he showed any other christian qualities.

I pointed that out to my mother in law and she said that is exactly what she needed to hear from that play. Something that made her think how she lacked appreciation for Jehovah's provisions (namely books and magazines). I had to re iterate I was referring to the other christian qualities that I mentioned. That got her thinking but after a while, she changed the subject.

54

WHEN people leave a cult...MAN landed on the moon? Or critical thinking......

by The Rebel in

jw
friends

i believe anyone who has voluntarily left a cult has shown they can adapt to new solutions, and have used " critical thinking" skills otherwise most would not have left.. yet i believe a safe place for support is still needed and this safe place i believe is searched for.. now i may not measure up to much in ways of education, but for me personally " critical thinking skills" = " new" a " new" way of thinking, that takes time for me the individual to be visual and to contemplate.

and the more i read about " critical thinking," the more convinced i am that i can live with the ridicule of those that claim i do not possess it.

furthermore i would say those that criticise others " critical thinking skills," often luck the sensibility and thoughts to snore, spit, and fart....nor would they understand a room full of tobacco smoke and cheap booze...where " critical thinking " can often be found in its most profound, in the most sensitive poems and "pictures" that were ever drawn.

StarTrekAngel

Viviane,

I think I have at least three situations in which you pointed out the same things and when I either offered an apology or a clearer explanation you banished. You have a tendency to drop this kind of statements and disappear. Based on your last post here, I would expect you would hang around and help us see what we lack. Thus applying your compassion.

In another note, I don't see how you can compare critical thinking with a skill like playing golf. If there is anything that shows me your lack of both, critical thinking and compassion (on your own words), is this last idea. For once, thinking, critical or not, is what makes us humans as a whole but also what makes us unique among other humans. It forges a lot of what we know as life. Playing golf is entertainment for the most part. Learning golf is not nearly as difficult as critical thinking. Not even ballpark (sounds familiar? I still waiting for you to accept my apology on that other thread, which would not bother me if I didn't respect you). Having critical thinking skills is a matter of perspective. If I am talking to a golfer and I have knowledge of golf, I can discuss golf matters with him but if I don't l don't know golf, then I don't have the skills to critically think about golf. Therefore, telling someone that they don't have critical thinking skills is an absolute statement and will always be offensive. An emotional answer is expected because you just offended the very nature of self. Telling someone "you don't know shit about golf" if it is clearly evident by his game, is different.

Like i said in another thread, for a rocket scientist, the rules of orbital mechanics are common sense.

21

Theory of Evolution and humanity are moving in parallel, and in opposite direction too!

by iconoclastic in

proponents of evolution theory was comfortable with their easiest method of induction that says something like this: i saw a blind man in the us, then in russia, then in australian, then in africa ..., hence all men are blind.

yet proofs are abundant for the decline (opposite of evolution) we experience globally!.

1) most humans declined into greed, the result of which is climate change which has the potential to wipe out all life from the earth.

StarTrekAngel

Saint,

1) Agree. Abundance was there for some but in many cases, the most precious bounty had to be chased and it could also attack you. It wasn't an easy life. This was ok while we were living in small groups. This does not work well when we have to feed millions. We quickly saw the benefit of raising and growing our own food. However, some noticed that they could manipulate other to feed them instead of having to hunt themselves. Look at some of the prescriptions for the priests of Israel. I am trying to keep this short but even in a culture of abundance, you still had to go up to the three and pick your own fruit.

2) True, but I believe that his prediction has worked for the current situation. I am not sure if he made any further predictions, but could it be said that the same ability to communicate will eventually brings us back together? May be the collective human race is acting like when you meet a new friend. We are now at a stage of misunderstanding each other because this ability to communicate has just brought us together. May be this same ability will finally help us settle our differences and end up bringing us closer.

3) Totall agree

4) Is difficult at this stage to tell if decease is winning the battle. We may have won over many of them but we don't know the long term effects. A long time ago, the development of antibiotics was seen as a win. Today over prescription is seen as a lurking danger. Sure it was our fault, but it shows that we grow in waves, not always in a straight line upwards and it shows that what we consider an absolute success today, may not be that much after all and may need rethinking. Hopefully longer term adjustments are detected and made soon before it becomes and irreversible problem. We are living longer, but is also understood that in many places the morbidity (a measure of the quality of life) is severely declining towards the later part of life. People are getting chronic deceases earlier in life.

5) My grandfather use to say how screwed up the world was getting and I could not understand what he was talking about. I am now beginning to have the same feeling but I can not help and see that, if he thought the world was bad in the 80's, that he would be totally outraged by the world of today. I also see from history that there are some things in which we have improved, in a way, not absolute. We don't sacrifice humans in an altar anymore, but we do sacrifice them in the name of other things by means of war and hunger. Could it by that here we also grow in waves?