Posts by elamona

28

Comments You Will Not Hear at the 11-16-03 WT Study

by blondie in

review comments will be in black and parentheses ()

red

we keep in mind peter's words: "it when you are doing good and you suffer, you endure it, this is a thing agreeable with god.

elamona

Thanks again for a wonderfully done critical disection of WTBTS babble. Please keep up the good work. I look forward to your commentaries.

59

Circuit overseer "rips them a new one"

by Mulan in

jw
friends

my jw buddy just called me with some "fun" news.

they had the co last week, and of course dave and i were part of the elder's meeting agenda.

my friend has just had a conversation with one of the elders, who told her about it because it involved her.

Maybe the CO realized that what these women were doing could be VERY illegal. I don't know if you live in a state that has stalking laws but maybe this type of behavior could be included under that umbrella. Also, he may have been trying to limit the legal liability of the KH in addition to squelching that kind of disgusting behavior.

Also, sincs the lawyers at the WTBTS seem to be running things, under the radar, they may be changing some of the tactics previously employed by the org in order to protect the WTBTS from mega -million dollar invasion-of-privacy, and other, types of lawsuits. Given the public attitude toward big corps, religious or not, this may be the smartest thing the GB has done in a long time- giving their lawyers say-so in some of the orgs affairs.

14

HELP...Long Discussion on Evolution vs Creationism w/ a friend

by Panda in

well, i sunk low on this one and basically told my best friend that she is stupid to for one second believe what the christian tv channel "evolution professor" says about the "facts".

first i said there is no such thing as an evolution professor.

she continually said she wasn't evolved from apes.

elamona

Perhaps you would enjoy the web site of Lambert Dolphin. He is a retired physicist who was the Senior Research Physicist at SRI (formerly Stanford Research Institute) until 1987. He has many articles that may be interesting to you. His address is: www.ldolphin.org

Click on library for the list of articles he has- many are scientifically based and very deep. As I have not had any physics in school it is hard for me to follow and understand some things but I like to read his stuff. There is also a link to his brief resume on that page so that you may evaluate his worthiness to discuss and expound on those types of issues.

14

HELP...Long Discussion on Evolution vs Creationism w/ a friend

by Panda in

well, i sunk low on this one and basically told my best friend that she is stupid to for one second believe what the christian tv channel "evolution professor" says about the "facts".

first i said there is no such thing as an evolution professor.

she continually said she wasn't evolved from apes.

elamona

If you are interested, there was an extremely good debate that took place on line at a forum that I will post. The debate was about "Does God Exist" and some of the evidence given in this debate was about creation vs evolution. Although the topic was not exclusively devoted to c vs e the info contained within is very appropro to your questions. The whole debate itself was and is worth downloading. I have passed out numerous copies of the debate to friends who have been blown away by the incredibly reasoned and coherent debate that took place. It is @150 pages if you print it out but I give it out on CD ROM's and disks. Am constantly being asked for more copies from people who have read the first parts of the debate and want copies of their own.

Go to www.theologyonline.com Click on forums in the main menu in the upper left hand corner.

Then click on Battle Royale Center Ring @ half way down under The Coliseum section.

Then click on the 5th listing- "Does God Exist-Battle Royale VII by Bob Enyart vs Zakath"

There are 4-5 very long pages consisting of questions and answers posed by each of the contestants to each other. Each was given a couple of days to respond so the debate took a couple of weeks. Bob is a Christian minister of a little church in Denver and Zakath was a Christian minister turned atheist. Both are intelligent and informed. I must tell you that Zakath forfeits the debate by not showing up for the last 3 rounds. He could no longer respond to Bob as he found out that his positions were indefensible. He was unable to present evidence that was not picked apart line by line, idea by idea by Bob Enyart. Be forewarned that if you are an atheist, agnostic or evolutionist you will not like this debate at all.

55

Your Favorite Scary Movie?

by Valis in

jw
friends

i watched this on bravo last night.

so what's yer favorite movie for spookiness on halloween?.

creature: "i have love in me the likes of which you can scarcely imagine.

elamona

The Exorcist-couldn't sleep good for months. Still sleep with a small night light on because of that movie.

Have attempted to watch it many times (trying to desentize myself) but still have never been able to watch the whole movie in one sitting. I cover my eyes and ears so much I've never seen the whole thing. Guess it was and is so scary to me because the movie was based on a true story. The book came out in the 70's and I read it when it came out but the book didn't scare me. Could not visualize what I saw in the movie. The movie put into pictures what my mind could not comprehend and "see" when I read the book. Does that make sense to you?

Alien, The Thing (both versions), and Aliens were terrific movies. Although not a horror movie, The Creature From The Black Lagoon was a very good monster movie in it's day. Incredibly good special effects for it's day. The creature was very real looking.

25

Wage discrepancies between the lower class with the upper class.

by William Penwell in

jw
friends

i just watched bill moyer's, now on pbs.

i was wondering who else watched the program.

it was dealing with the discrepancies between the lower class workers and the upper class executives.

elamona

BTW, I live in a paid for trailer on a small piece of land in the deep south (in the USA) where hardly anyone makes a lot of money. I guess I'm that "trailer park trash" that the great moralist Bill Clinton made famous. I raised my kids by myself because my husband left me when they were little. I went to college when I wasn't working and I have always worked 2 or 3 jobs and counted myself lucky that I could find work and feed my family. Now , in my older years, I only have one job.I try not to envy what other people have (sometimes I am guilty, especially when I see really nice homes with a pool and manicured lawn and all of the other great things that make life enjoyable), but at the same time I am truly glad that I don't have a large house note to pay on for 30 years(I could easily afford one now). I am thankful that I don't have to worry if I don't get to work a full week, like some of my coworkers are. It's all in what compromises you are willing to make in order to achieve the things in life that you want. Some things I am not willing to compromise on. Some things I do not want to put out the effort it takes to get it. I guess I am one of those misled peasants who is relatively content with the way my life is.

25

Wage discrepancies between the lower class with the upper class.

by William Penwell in

jw
friends

i just watched bill moyer's, now on pbs.

i was wondering who else watched the program.

it was dealing with the discrepancies between the lower class workers and the upper class executives.

elamona

Continuation.....

Some people are pleasing to look at, have nice voices and look good sitting behind a anchor desk(or on the silver screen) and sound intelligent because the stuff they are reading off the teleprompter or from a script (which is written by someone else most of the time) makes them APPEAR to be intelligent. They exude confidence in their own persons. They sign contracts with networks worth many, many millions of dollars a year because people who watch TV are usually faithful watchers who rarely change the channel when the news comes on. These people, the Bill Moyers, Peter Jennings and Mike Wallaces of the world, make gazillions of dollars because they have convinced the majority of people that they KNOW things that the average person doesn't, have gigantic field reporter staffs, great investigative staffs and are constantly harping on how unjust the world is , and how rich people are undeserving of all their wealth, except themselves, of course.Do you think that what they do is worth THAT kind of money for sitting in front of a desk for 2-3 hours a day? After all, the only real talents they have are the talents of, confidence, beauty and a great staff that does the homework and leg work for them and the ability to foster classs consciencousness and envy every chance they get .They are always pointing out how wrong it is to be the "evil rich"(doctors, lawyers and businessmen) as opposed to the "justly rich" (themselves and their fellow entertainers and those old monied families that fund the huge foundations that the journalists love). If you like to be constantly pumped full of propaganda about the evil unjust society we live in and how no one (except themselves ) should have more than anyone else then continue to watch them and join their class war. Maybe you will achieve the "justice" you think you deserve. Be warned though, the justice that you get is not always what you ask for.

Lastly, there are people who have a talent for making money. They take chances investing OWN money is other people's ventures. They could (and many times do) lose everything because of poor investment choices. Sometimes they become fabulously wealthy because they "saw" something in someone else and their business and took a risk and put their own money into that business that paid off. Do they deserve to be wealthy? I think so. The product or service must be something many people want or need otherwise the company wouldn't make money, right?

A subcategory of this investor is the kind of investor who knows the right people, has the right contacts, and gets the inside information that allows them to make huge amounts of money because they are essentially corrupt people who are willing to do anything to have money- lie, cheat, steal, kill,etc- including selling their soul. These people give all other investors bad names. Do you want to be this kind of person- wealthy but evil? Do you really want to be the kind of person that you hate?(You must hate them you are envious of WHAT they have, not HOW they got it) From just looking on the surface of things can you tell which investor is an honest person and which one is not?

Wealth is a relative thing. Lets say the guy who lives down the block and makes $20,000 less a year than you . He thinks that he deserves to have what you have,so he breaks into your home, steals everything of wealth, kills your wife and demands that he not be punished for his crimes. Why? Because in his own eyes(and in the eyes of many of his friends) he was getting what he believed he justly deserved- (he didn't earn it, wouldn't work to get it, was lazy and uneducated,etc) and your wife happened to get in his way and wouldn't relinquish her property. Or let's say that he is so lazy that he hires some one else to do the crimes .Do you think that that person(s) should go to jail ?If you TRULY believe in the concept of social justice as espoused by most socialists( and many of you, from what I am reading) - that everyone should have the same and that no one should have any more than anyone else- then you could not convict him or his employee of anything because he saw an unjustness and acted on it- he was the "victim". You had something more than him, he envied you, he wanted it , so he took it. That IS the social justice and class justice that you are talking about here. Oh, the employee he hired? He was the politicians you vote for every time you vote for some one who promises to make the "rich" pay. He's the one with the gun at your head- demanding your money for the more "deserving" fellow down the block, the one who has less than you do.

25

Wage discrepancies between the lower class with the upper class.

by William Penwell in

jw
friends

i just watched bill moyer's, now on pbs.

i was wondering who else watched the program.

it was dealing with the discrepancies between the lower class workers and the upper class executives.

elamona

First, let me say that I am a working class "peasant " so that no one here gets the idea that I am some kind of rich person. Next you are going to think that I am crazy or something, but I'm going to say it anyway. The 10th commandment says "You shall not covet (be jealously envious of , green with envy of) your neighbor's house, your neighbor's wife, or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor." Exodus 20:17. I realize that this is an old fashioned concept that people laugh at , and say is no longer valid, but I try to live by it (along with the other 9). I am not a particularly religious person, am not a JW any longer, but I try to live by the values that were instilled in me since I was a small child.

Am I happy that some people seem to be insanely rich and most of the rest of us "second class citizens" have to struggle just to make ends meet? Of course not. But there are many, many reasons why some people are rich and others are not. Let's consider some of those reasons.

Some people are willing to go to school for 10-15 years past the high school level. They have the ability and are willing to invest time, money, and themselves to become the doctors, lawyers, scientists, etc. that they are. Most of them incur great debt financing their education and when they finally get to the "top", they start their occupations with a HUGE debt they have got to pay off. How many of YOU are willing to forgo just about everything to achieve your goal? If you think just any average joe can make a GREAT doctor (or lawyer) try picking your next specialist (let's say you need a neurosurgeon , cancer specialist, or a criminal defense lawyer) out of a hat which has random names, found in the phone book, written on a little sheet of paper. Does this instill confidence in you? Is your life worth the extra money it takes to hire someone who wants ( and needs) to make more money than the average person?

Other people are born with natural abilities that they hone thruout their lives, forgoing everything else also, to become the the Michael Jordans, Brett Farves, etc of the sports world. WE make these people rich because WE voluntairly pay to see these people perform their "magic". WE sit in grandstands and front of the boob tube for unending hours cheering them on and buying sponsors products We make them the super rich superstars that they are. We love to be entertained and willingly pay to make these people rich. Don't like super-rich mega superstars? Don't WATCH and don't buy sponsors products. Simple as that.

Other people work very hard(60 or more hours a week) building their own very small company into bigger and bigger ones over many years. When they reach the point where they are rich by the average person's standards they have probably earned barely the minimun wage if you divide the the amount of money they make by the total number of hours that they have invested in their company. We see the rich person. We do not see the man or woman who has worked 16 or more hours a day, 7 days a week for years and years. Are you willing to live the kind of life that that person had in the early years to be rich (I might add that there are NO guarantees either, that his/her investment in their business will be a success). If you are honest with yourself, most of us will say no. I tend to be a little lazy, like to have free time for myself and my family and am not very gung ho about anything, so I have to say no. More to come........

15

The nerve of these people....

by Oxnard Hamster in

i was thoroughly disgusted after last sunday's meeting.

the talk was about satan and his methods of trapping people.

as many of you probably know, they are adamantly against any and all forms of spiritism, including harry potter, any tv shows containing spiritism, and video games containing spiritism.

elamona

Amnesia is a wonderful thing- allows the WTBTS to not remember the pyrimidology, masonic temple, angel writing and ufo things in their past connected with Russell and/or Rutherford. I lump these things in with spiritism- don't you?

12

1874 v. 1914 date change?a masterpiece (Part Three)

by MacHislopp in

* quote from the year

quote from the year

* quote from the year

elamona

Have enjoyed all of the articles and their concise analysis. I hope you don't mind that I have downloaded and put on a CD. I have not edited, modified or revised in any way and you will continue to be recognized as the author. If you object, I will promptly remove from the CD but will keep in a folder on my PC desk if you don't mind. Thanks again.