Posts by Nic

29

Anyone heard this re: Prince antics?

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

stardate: june 27, 2001 .

prince

has really started an intimate artist-to-fan relationship.

Nic

Do you think they call him Brother Prince when he answers up at the meetings? I bet his baptism got announced at the assembly!

20

Do you believe in Armageddon ??? Watchtower sure scares them good !!!

by run dont walk in

alot of discussion referring to the new book released learning from the great teacher, and the scene of armageddon page.

what a pile of garbage, how could the society justify in publishing such pics.. if/when armageddon comes (which i doubt), it probaly would not take more than one minute.

i cannot see people running around screaming in terror, with their clothes torn and beating each other up, like the watchtower portrays, just another scare tactic for the watchtower.

NO!! Not in the way they teach anyway. I was thinking about this earlier this morning and I think if there was an armageddon, God would destroy all those claiming to be the truth (i.e. all religions) because by their actions, they dishonour him and "stumble" people (which is a death penalty in itself). I think he would save everyone who tries to be good and kind. I don't think that a perfect God would need to be worshipped all the time - after all only humans need that sort of power. I think he would be happy that people are trying to be good and kind and live their lives peacefully. People that don't try and gain power over others for their own benefits. People that don't try and gain position in the congregation by being a regular pioneer or an elder. People that don't always think they are better than everyone else. What's the word, oh yeah, HUMBLE.

Personally, I think armageddon will be something that we do ourselves, either by nuclear wars or by environmental breakdowns. Whatever it is, I'll do my best to live my life without doing harm to anyone else, and take my chances.

46

skirts

by Nic in

what a load of rubbish.

what's with the rule that says that ladies have to wear a skirt/dress to all meetings/service etc.?

jesus wore a dress, does that mean that the men have to as well?

Nic

What a load of rubbish. What's with the rule that says that ladies have to wear a skirt/dress to all meetings/service etc.? Jesus wore a dress, does that mean that the men have to as well? I always thought that rule was stupid and to this day, refuse to wear a skirt. It makes me feel like I did way back then.

I know it's trivial but this rule REALLY BUGS ME!!!!!

21

Ever Met A Guy/Girl At A JW Convention?

by Latin assassin from Manhattan in

have you ever met a single guy/girl at a jw convention, and thought so highly of him/her until you really found out what they were like?

Nic

I had a wide circle of JW friends being a pioneer and all and there were one or two that I really would've liked to go out with. But they were so shy and afraid that no one ever asked anyone out. it was like being 12 again! Also the stupid "got to have marriage in mind" rule put so much pressure on everyone. The only three guys that were in it and asked me out were all ex-worldlies and so by default, had a bit of guts and were used to girls but typically, none of them were on my list! So I said no.

82

What If Jehovah's Witnesses Are Right?

by shamus in

the "what if" thing comes to mind... no matter how much i strongly believe that they are not, what if armageddon happened tomorrow and they were correct?

would you have any sorrow for being wrong???.

i, personally would not.

Nic

I sometimes wonder this question. And I sometimes wonder if I could go back in it just to survive Armageddon/make my mum happy and get her off my back. Then I remember that I wouldn't survive anyway because God would know that I wasn't really in it. Then I think of all the wicked people that are witnesses who dare to come round and try and tell me I am wicked and they are all so righteous. One of them being the Ministerial Servant who was having an affair with my sister, denied it and got her disfellowshipped - yes he has the gall to knock on doors and tell everyone else that they are wicked! Damn cheek. I wouldn't want to live with them for a day let alone forever. Also I'd be without my hubby who is my bestest friend and my rock especially as far as all this is concerned. My mum always quotes that scripture "by their fruits you will know them" to prove that other religions are bad because of what their flock gets up to e.g. kiddy fiddling priests etc. I can't see how the dubs are any different.

10

Article needed: d/fing of those who hold personal views

by Euphemism in

i recall seeing a statement in the watchtower that those who personally disagree with major wt doctrines, even if they are not promoting their personal viewpoints, are apostates and liable to disfellowshiping.

i'm searching the wtlib, however, and i can't find it.

does anyone remember where it is?

Nic

Well I was df'd for not agreeing with the elders. I was seeing a married but getting divorced worldly man, with whom I did not engage in sexual activity. I broke up with him so many times but the elders would drag me into the elder's room at every single meeting and question me on where I'd been, who I'd been with and even reported things to me what their spies had seen (a lot of it was lies - by a "brother" who was one of the elders best mates and who was diverting the attention from his own affair with my sister). I wasn't with this man but was in love with him and although we weren't seeing each other, we were both local and if I did happen to see him then I wouldn't ignore him even they wanted me to.

I said to them, if you can show me anywhere in the Bible that speaking to a worldly person or even dating a getting divorced man is a df'ing offence, then I will agree with you. As far as I was concerned, there were major things that warranted df'ing - smoking, getting drunk, sex before marriage, drugs, etc etc. I made sure I wasn't doing any of these things.

They showed me some obscure scripture in Job which had nothing to do with it, but which they twisted to say, you must do what the elders say. I said, "so does that mean that if I don't agree with what you say or do what you want, even though you have no scriptural back up, then you can DF me?" They said YES. I said, "but you could tell me anything and I have to go along with it?" They said YES. At my judicial, it was like being in court. I wasn't allowed my mum and dad there because I was 19 and baptised. 5 elders sat around me in a semi circle and fired question after question, calling me a liar and shouting at me. I was df'd. My mum and dad had a meeting with the elders about it. It got very heated and mum ended up shouting at them and walked out. They then wrote to the Society to see if there was anything they could do. The Society backed up the elders without even looking into it. Mum and Dad were reproved for writing to the society and banned from everything for 2 years. And yet they are still in it!

This was the turning point for me. If they could change my whole life, accuse me of all sorts and force me to believe and do whatever they want without any scriptural back up then there was no way I ever wanted to be part of that. I have never looked back.

17

How do you handle a disappointed mum?

by Nic in

i've been out of it for 9 years now and i still feel guilty.

my mum majored in emotional blackmail which is why i pioneered when i left school instead of going to college like i was desperate to do.

i couldn't bear to upset my mum.

Nic

I've been out of it for 9 years now and I still feel guilty. My mum majored in emotional blackmail which is why I pioneered when i left school instead of going to college like I was desperate to do. I couldn't bear to upset my mum. All the life I had lived was to please my mum. I would say and do the right things to please her even if I didn't agree with it myself. She wanted me to be her perfect little angel and I was. When I ws df'd I tell her it was out of my hands. In a way it was - I was being disfellowshipped for talking to a man that I once had a relationship with. He was worldly, married but separated (getting divorced in fact) and we never did anything sexual. I had broken up with him as was the right thing to do but he waited for me in the town and I bumped into him and had a brief conversation. This was what I was disfellowshipped for. They didn't believe that I wasn't having sex with him. anyway, I said to my mum that it was out of my hands because it was really - they didn't believe me so that was it. She fully expected me to go back straight away and so did the elders (which begs the question, why DF me in the first place if they could see I was repentent?) I saw it as my ticket to freedom. I was devastated at losing my two best friends and didn't know how I would cope with my life turned upside down but I knew I had to take the chance. All my life I had wondered if I would ever have the guts to upset mum and get out. This did it all for me. But now, 9 years later, my mum thinks that if she can get the elders to re-instate me for df'ing me for no reason, then I would go back. I've told her I won't ever go back but she doesn't believe me. She insists on witnessing to me at every opportunity even though I get very angry. She is doing what she did to my dad and who eventually succumbed and joined the borg. She has spoken to the District and Circuit overseers who agree with her but say it is too late to do anything although they are looking into it. Some of the elders have apologised to mum and dad for what happened with me but none of them have apologised to me. The injustice of it is what annoys and upsets me the most. It was all I'd ever known all my life and when I go to them for help, they brow beat me, bully me and harass me for every single tiny, personal detail. Then they don't believe me and df me anyway. And she wants me to go back?

How do I get her off my back? I've had very lengthy calm discussions with her. I make it quite plain - if she comes round in December I don't hide my Christmas tree like my sister does, I make it very plain that I don't want to be involved yet she doesn't want to hear it. They speak to all of us still even though all 4 of us are out, but we are not allowed to eat with them which creates major problems at weddings and funerals etc. I think this was a way of trying to warn us that one day they might not speak to us anymore - to shock us into action. Sometimes I believe this although deep down I don't think she will do it because she will lose all hope of every trying to get me back.

Any advice?

57

How Do You Handle Death?

by minimus in

jw
friends

for most witnesses, the ressurection hope keeps survivors going.

i knew of some jw's that were in such denial that they would want to believe that "they're just sleeping but are still alive to jehovah.

" others would bust themselves "in the work", while others would "mourn as the nations do".

Nic

Forgot to finish!! Sorry.

Anyway, my Grandad died in November last year. I knew him quite well as I lived with him and my nan while I went to drama school so the funeral was very sad. I did not find any comfort in what the priest had to say but I also did not get comfort in my mum's belief's of the resurrection. However, after the funeral I seemed to be able to box it up and not be upset anymore - maybe this is because I don't have any fixed views on life after death and that anything is possible.

57

How Do You Handle Death?

by minimus in

jw
friends

for most witnesses, the ressurection hope keeps survivors going.

i knew of some jw's that were in such denial that they would want to believe that "they're just sleeping but are still alive to jehovah.

" others would bust themselves "in the work", while others would "mourn as the nations do".

Nic

When I was in the Borg I was really scared of death. All my life I had "We won't see next year" or "Armageddon's just round the corner" and it used to frighten the life out of me. I wasn't bigoted enough to believe that I was perfect enough to survive and if not, I would suffer the horrible deaths mentioned in the bible. And if I did surive, I wouldn't see my non-believing family ever again (my dad included). The religion seems to revolve around life and death. Not just believing in God and living life according to our consciences but everything has a dramatic consequence - if you pioneered you survived armageddon, if you didn't go "on the work" you would die at armageddon - one massive bribe.

It was only when I was df'd that I stopped being afraid of death. Because now, I believe that it is God's decision who lives and who dies - at any time not just at armageddon (which I don't believe in anyway). I don't believe that I am wicked but I think that to believe that I am righteous and that God will save me or have intervention in my life is wicked. What makes them so special that God would actively bless/provide/look after them? That is not humility. Yet another example of hypocrisy and mind control.

38

How did you adjust to the world after leaving JW land ? friends/lonliness ?

by run dont walk in

how long did it take you to adjust to the real world ???

and make real friends, who didn't care about religion.

did you suffer from lonliness and depression after leaving ???.

Nic

On the outside I adjusted pretty well. I had one "worldly" friend that I had known since junior school and had started to visit her to talk to a non jdub and get a different viewpoint during my final 6 months as a dub (I was dragged into the elder's room at every single meeting and was sick of talking about why I was in love with a worldy married but separated man, who was many years older than me - obviously he was using me for sex right? Oh so that's why he wouldn't touch me and refused to be alone with me for a whole year. Oh yeah that makes sense. I suppose she was my relief from it all.)

Anyway, through her I met a new friend and as soon as I was DF'd (for doing absolutely nothing!! They didn't believe me so I was out anyway) I started going out with them - the usual for most ex-witnesses of 19 - pubs, clubs, parties - and it was in between christmas and new year so we were having loads of fun. I also started a full time job in the January (thank God - money!) to fund this new lifestyle. There I made loads of friends even though there were only two guys who worked there, they had loads of friends/girlfriends and I used to see old schoolfriends come into the store (mobile phone shop). So gradually I started to get a few friends. I also made friends with the girl in the shop next door and her friends. So I had about 4 different groups of friends that I could go out with at any one time. Which was fantastic and my saviour. (The guy I was seeing broke up with me just before I was df'd - great timing. We got back together and were together for another two years off and on but I could never rely on him - especially as he lived in Guernsey and I am on the mainland.)

Then I moved jobs, drifted apart from some people, my first and oldest friend moved to London (2 hours from me), and I was basically left with one friend and my sister. Then I met a new bloke who is now my hubby. I started a new job in an office with about 50 young people and it all started all over again. I have now left that place and have 2 very good friends and loads of acquaintances from there. Then I went to drama school in London and made loads of friends, about 8 of which I am still in contact with today. I am also involved with local drama groups, of which there is a massive collective of young people.

On the inside I think I have coped pretty well. It was extremely painful saying goodbye to my friends - I suspected that I was going to be df'd the day before and was at a farewell party for my best bloke friend who was moving to Russia ( very spiritual and has become an elder there blah blah - shame as he was a great bloke). I told one or two people who I was close to, all of whom were amazed - after all I was a Regular Pioneer. My best girl friend never got to hear the story of it all - I didn't want to tell her because I was sick of talking about it but also because she was so straight laced she wouldn't have understood. I have basically spent my life since - I am now 28 - catching up on what I missed out on - college, career, friends, fun etc. I haven't got a clue what I believe except that I know I definitely done't believe in Armageddon or that there is one true religion - I think they are all corrupt and I will NEVER EVER give anyone control over my life again.

I have difficulty dealing with my mum. She has a major in guilt trips and always wanted me to be mum's perfect little girl which is why I pioneered. I really miss my best witness girlfriend Jenny and keep hoping that she will leave. I never found anyone to replace her until about 6 months ago and now feel much happier. I find myself trying to prove things to people all the time - I can be happy and successful without being a druggie, alcoholic or prostitute (remember those articles about what happens to you if you leave?) As you can imagine, this puts a lot of stress on me and I am working on it. But I WILL be a famous actress and they can all kiss my ass.