Maybe if we summarized the chapters, one by one, and posted them here on JWD, defd would read it.
Did you read ..........THAT........book...............
by vitty 61 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
kid-A
Derrick
You have indicated in many of your posts that you are an open-minded person. I dont understand why you would not consider reading this? Its a fascinating story written by a man who used to be a member of the governing body and actually was the AUTHOR of many of the JW books you have probably read.
It is simply a historical telling of the personal experiences of Ray Franz and reveals the inner workings of the organization. How could reading such information harm you? If you really believe this is the truth, the words of one man wont dissuade you. If I was a willing member of an organization, I would want to hear ALL sides of the story. And believe me, Ray Franz' side of the story is one of the most interesting accounts I have ever read. He is also an excellent writer.
-
AK - Jeff
From reading your postings (I'm a reader, more than a poster), you seem like a nice enough guy. I can respect that you're still in the organization...and maybe therefore you still feel that you shouldn't do things that the society has recommended (albeit, strong-armedly) against. However, what makes reading a book different than going to this site? From the organization's viewpoint they're EQUALLY as wrong. So, how can you reconcile one and not the other? I'm really curious.
CS2 - we've been trying to get an answer on that one for the few months he has been on this site.Cognitive dissonance is kicking in though - so it may just be a matter of time.
Jeff
[edited to add: Why does every damn thread end up turning to Derrick aka Defd? I am guilty of it too. Can we move on to others of great interest. A lot of great people post here besides Defd. - Sorry just venting a little - he is so frustrating to deal with.]
-
Spectre
I left about 11 years ago still completely believing everything from the WTBTS. It was after I took some college classes that I started to doubt everything. I read CoC a little over 2 years ago and that really was the final nail in the coffin. Where Ray Franz still believes the bible though, I don't.
-
Cori
I just finished it....awesome! Life changing!
Revealed Truth!
-
Candlestick02
AK-Jeff: ahh.. sorry to ask the already asked many times. It's just fascinating that he allows himself the freedom to do one, but not the other. It's also frustrating -- but that's only because we see the bigger picture. The good thing is that Derrick is here and is looking for something. Maybe it's just a matter of time before he finds IT and allows himself the permission to do even more.
= )
Candle
-
Narkissos
I read CoC shortly after I was df'd for apostasy in 1986.
I had some intuition that what I had been living in the past few months would somewhat echo the events which had led to the df'ng of Ray and others in the early 80's (events I had only vaguely heard about in the French Bethel). I was not disappointed.
I enjoyed a lot of fresh information in CoC, and especially the peaceful, modest, bitterless, and deeply human approach of Ray. I had irregular contact with him throughout the years and only met him a few weeks ago in Germany. We spent a few hours together and it was a very nice experience to me.
-
avishai
Defd, your response is exactly that of someone of another religion who won't read the Watchtower because they are afraid. And they will supposedly be destroyed for this.
I suggest you read this article for the WTS view on it is.
*** Awake! 1984 November 22 pp.8-10 An Open Mind Wins God's Approval ***
An Open Mind Wins God's Approval
THE importance of having an open mind so as to win God's approval is shown in the words recorded at Ephesians 5:10, 17. There we read: "Keep on making sure of what is acceptable to the Lord. On this account cease becoming unreasonable, but go on perceiving what the will of Jehovah is."
But is it not a fact that many people have closed minds when it comes to religion? Some even reject the idea of a Supreme Being and are unwilling to listen to the evidence of his existence presented by believers. For them religion is a closed subject.
Even some religious people have closed minds. They are interested only in "their" religion, showing no willingness to as much as listen to the views of others. And even though they may not have chosen their religion but simply have inherited it from their parents, still they feel that their religion must be right. But not every inheritance is necessarily good. A quick temper, a selfish attitude or a deceitful spirit can also be parental hand-me-downs, but they are definitely undesirable.
What makes a religion right is its total adherence to God's Word. Whether our religion meets this criterion or not can only be determined by open-mindedly comparing it with the Bible. Certainly such an important matter as our worship of God should not be determined for us by the coincidence of where we were born. After all, the child born to Catholic parents has had no more control over this fact than the child born to Muslim parents controls that.
Avoid Religious Prejudice
When people are approached with a religious message, they may react in one of several ways. Some will say: "Absolute truth is impossible to find"; "all religions are only out for your money"; "science has disproved religion"; "religion is just a crutch for weak people." These views, and others like them, tend to close the mind and cut off investigation before it has begun. It is prejudice at work.
Why, some people have even been known to doubt the truthfulness of a message simply on the basis of where the message bearer came from. Take, for example, an event from the first century C.E. John 1:45, 46 tells us: "Philip found Nathanael and said to him: 'We have found the one of whom Moses, in the Law, and the Prophets wrote, Jesus, the son of Joseph, from Nazareth.' But Nathanael said to him: 'Can anything good come out of Nazareth?' Philip said to him: 'Come and see.'" Philip was clearly admonishing Nathanael to keep an open mind.
Similar things happen today. When missionaries of Jehovah's Witnesses preach in foreign countries, they may experience rejection, even though their message is based on the Bible, simply because of their nationality. Following the example of Nathanael of old, some people may ask: "Can anything good come out of America?"
Others may tend to reject a message because it is presented in a simple way by a person of simple background. But is this wise? About members of the early Christian congregation, we read: "When the Council [Jewish Sanhedrin] saw the boldness of Peter and John, and could see that they were obviously uneducated non-professionals, they were amazed and realized what being with Jesus had done for them!"—Acts 4:13, The Living Bible.
Yes, "uneducated non-professionals" can do amazing things when trained in the sayings of God. So do not allow their lack of formal theological training or professionalism to close your mind; leave it open to investigate the message they bring.
How to Find Religious Truth
An open mind is willing to do what 1 John 4:1 recommends. It says: "Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired expression, but test the inspired expressions to see whether they originate with God, because many false prophets have gone forth into the world." But in view of the thousands of different religious groups and sects now in existence, is it possible to test what is true? Yes, not only possible but also not nearly as difficult as you might think. For example:
Some religions teach that in time our literal earth will be burned up. They may quote 2 Peter 3:7 in support: "But by the same word the heavens and the earth that are now are stored up for fire and are being reserved to the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly men."
But does this text really say that the literal earth will be burned up? Actually, it only speaks of the "destruction of the ungodly men." In the preceding verses, 2Pe 3:5 and 6, it likens this to the time of Noah's flood when "the world of that time suffered destruction when it was deluged with water."
Now what actually perished in the Flood? Genesis 7:23 answers: "Thus he wiped out every existing thing that was on the surface of the ground, from man to beast, . . . and they were wiped off the earth." Logically, when wicked people were "wiped off the earth," the literal earth must have remained standing.
This is in harmony with Ecclesiastes 1:4, which informs us that "a generation is going, and a generation is coming; but the earth is standing even to time indefinite." Psalm 104:5 is even more emphatic: "He has founded the earth upon its established places; it will not be made to totter to time indefinite, or forever."
After comparing these scriptures, an open mind will conclude that any religion teaching the literal destruction of the earth is teaching an untruth. Could it then be the true religion, representing Jehovah God, the God of truth? Or what if it teaches other doctrines equally false? By the process of elimination, we can weed out false religions quickly.
"Be Sound in Mind"
The apostle Peter's admonition "be sound in mind" includes, of necessity, having an open mind, for only an open mind can reach sound conclusions and make sound judgments. Some of the inhabitants of Beroea had such an open mind, because of them we read that "they received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so."—1 Peter 4:7; Acts 17:11.
An open mind, free of prejudice, will enable us to go on "carefully examining the Scriptures daily" and then to act upon what we learn. This is in harmony with the Bible counsel to "become doers of the word, and not hearers only." The Beroeans were more than just hearers, because Acts 17:12 informs us that "many of them became believers."—James 1:22; see also Matthew 7:21.
Yes, having an open mind will pay in many ways. Using it to help us find the true religion will enrich our present life, improve our spiritual health and assist us in solving life's problems. But, most importantly, it will also help us win God's approval, thus putting us in the way of receiving everlasting life in his new system.—See Mark 10:29, 30.
Literally hundreds of thousands of people living around the globe are happy that they were open-minded enough to investigate the Bible message. By having an open mind toward religion they have seen the marvelous prospect of everlasting life on a paradise earth opened up to them. Would you enjoy such a prospect for your future?
Are you open-minded enough to investigate? It will be to your everlasting benefit if you are.
[Footnotes]
For additional examples, see chapters 8 and 9 of the book You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth, published in 1982 by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc.
[Picture on page 9]
Do you reject a message because of preconceived ideas? Or do you investigate?
[Pictures on page 10]
An open mind can put you on the way to everlasting life in Paradise.
[Emphasis Added]
-
jt stumbler
I was shocked and amazed that a book like CoC even existed. I always told people that I talked to that if you want to know what Jw's believe; ask one. So I examined the book because it was by a former JW. It really helped me see both sides and I was able to come to my own conclusions. I recommend it to all. .
-
stillAwitness
I read maybe the first chapter...I think. I was still young when I read it. Maybe 17 and it was still much too hard for me to really understand