Dont be so hard on satan (page 2)

googlemagoogle

First satans real name is Lucifer

where did you get that from? his real name is alice!

gumby

Maybe god just hates the sin but not the sinner.

*tries to fit in*

Gumby

God created Evil. The Bible tells us that God created ALL things. And if he is all knowing, surely he would have known what Satan would have turned out like? Also, God changed his mind, he messed up, big time. Thats why he flooded so many people. If God's purpose never changes, what happened in the Garden of Eden contridicts the whole version of truth.

Narkissos

Perhaps a bit of historical approach (in the sense of "history of beliefs") would help?

Before there was a "God" there was no "Satan" either.

"Satan" is nothing but the shadow of "God".

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/67503/1.ashx

Now if we step back into mythological speech it is quite interesting that Origen includes "Satan" in the final perspective of universal restoration (apokatastasis pantôn).

daystar

Thoughts on Lucifer v. Satan

That the Latin scholastics have succeeded in transforming the universal soul and Pleroma, the vehicle of Light and the receptacle of all the forms, a force spread throughout the whole Universe, with its direct and indirect effects, into Satan and his works, is no news to any one.

from here - http://www.wisdomworld.org/additional/christianity/Satan-Lucifer.html

Although there are numerous examples from both categories that could be listed, perhaps one of the most popular misconceptions among Bible believers is that Satan also is designated as “Lucifer” within the pages of the Bible. What is the origin of the name Lucifer, what is its meaning, and is it a synonym for “Satan”?

from here - http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/2215

The first problem is that Lucifer is a Latin name. So how did it find its way into a Hebrew manuscript, written before there was a Roman language? To find the answer, I consulted a scholar at the library of the Hebrew Union College in Cincinnati. What Hebrew name, I asked, was Satan given in this chapter of Isaiah, which describes the angel who fell to become the ruler of hell?
The answer was a surprise. In the original Hebrew text, the fourteenth chapter of Isaiah is not about a fallen angel, but about a fallen Babylonian king, who during his lifetime had persecuted the children of Israel. It contains no mention of Satan, either by name or reference. The Hebrew scholar could only speculate that some early Christian scribes, writing in the Latin tongue used by the Church, had decided for themselves that they wanted the story to be about a fallen angel, a creature not even mentioned in the original Hebrew text, and to whom they gave the name "Lucifer."
Why Lucifer? In Roman astronomy, Lucifer was the name given to the morning star (the star we now know by another Roman name, Venus). The morning star appears in the heavens just before dawn, heralding the rising sun. The name derives from the Latin term lucem ferre, bringer, or bearer, of light." In the Hebrew text the expression used to describe the Babylonian king before his death is Helal, son of Shahar, which can best be translated as "Day star, son of the Dawn." The name evokes the golden glitter of a proud king's dress and court (much as his personal splendor earned for King Louis XIV of France the appellation, "The Sun King").

from here (LDS, no less) - http://www.lds-mormon.com/lucifer.shtml

The name Lucifer originally denotes the planet Venus, emphasizing its brilliance. The Vulgate employs the word also for "the light of the morning" (Job 11:17), "the signs of the zodiac" (Job 38:32), and "the aurora" (Psalm 109:3). Metaphorically, the word is applied to the King of Babylon (Isaiah 14:12) as preeminent among the princes of his time; to the high priest Simon son of Onias (Ecclesiasticus 50:6), for his surpassing virtue, to the glory of heaven (Apocalypse 2:28), by reason of its excellency; finally to Jesus Christ himself (2 Peter 1:19; Apocalypse 22:16; the "Exultet" of Holy Saturday) the true light of our spiritual life.
The Syriac version and the version of Aquila derive the Hebrew noun helel from the verb yalal, "to lament"; St. Jerome agrees with them (In Isaiah 1:14), and makes Lucifer the name of the principal fallen angel who must lament the loss of his original glory bright as the morning star. In Christian tradition this meaning of Lucifer has prevailed; the Fathers maintain that Lucifer is not the proper name of the devil, but denotes only the state from which he has fallen (Petavius, De Angelis, III, iii, 4).

bold mine, from the Catholic Encyclopedia online, here - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09410a.htm

forsharry

Why not? He's a big boy, he can take it. I mean after gettin dissed by the Big G, anything we can say or do would be like trying to poke a stick with a rock.

Big Dog

As Mr. Jagger says:

So if you meet me
Have some courtesy
Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse
Or I’ll lay your soul to waste, um yeah
Pleased to meet you
Hope you guessed my name, um yeah

gringojj

Can god exist without satan?

Kaput

Do god and satan exist?

tetrapod.sapien

LOL gringo! "can god exist without satan"

people,

of course they don't exist. i close my eyes and shake my head at believers in such. it may not be obvious to you, but it's obvious to me. there is no evidence for such. THAT is the epitomy of obviousness. to say otherwise is to continue a long held tradition of paleolithic thinking manifest in many of our species. it's 2005 for darwin's-sake! wake up and break the cycle already! i have been in your place before, believing in god and satan. have you taken a single a moment to at least wonder why i think it's so obvious that they don't exist? think about that for a while. have a drink while you're at it. on me...

when i say "all hail satan, father of freedom of thought and truth", it doesn't mean i think he exists. it means i am trying to get you to think.

all hail satan, father of freedom of thought and truth

tetragod

Lucifer as depicted in Collin de Plancy's Dictionnaire Infernal (1863)

Dont be so hard on satan