INTIMACY Poll...UBM's I'm asking you

by jgnat 30 Replies latest social relationships

jgnat

Intimacy in a Mixed Marriage
OK, time for my second poll. The first one on SECRECY struck a chord with many of you. It seems that dealing with the needs of the non-JW partner it is a big area to deal with. Again, to prevent contamination of the results, I will give my own contribution at the end.
For the purpose of this survey, when I am talking about intimacy, I am referring to the close personal sharing of heart and mind. From www.m-w.com
Main Entry: 2in·ti·mate

Pronunciation: 'in-t&-m&t Function: adjective
Etymology: alteration of obsolete intime, from Latin intimus
1 a : INTRINSIC , ESSENTIAL b : belonging to or characterizing one's deepest nature
2 : marked by very close association, contact, or familiarity <intimate knowledge of the law>
3 a : marked by a warm friendship developing through long association b : suggesting informal warmth or privacy <intimate clubs>
4 : of a very personal or private nature
1. When one of you changed your beliefs, did it change the level of intimacy in your marriage, and if so, was it for the better or the worse?
2. Can you share your innermost religious feelings with your partner?
3. Does being able to share your religious feelings impact your ability to be intimate overall?
4. I have used the analogy of the "other woman" when describing the influence of the Watchtower Bible and Tract society on our marriage. Hubby also consults "her" whenever he is making a decision. Would this analogy fit your situation, and if so, how does it affect intimacy?
5. Does your partner bring Watchtower materials to bed?
6. Anything else you would like to share?
freedomlover

Okay, I can't believe no UBM's have jumped on this yet.....where are you all!!?? This is the area where I felt the most tension between me and my hubby....
1. When one of you changed your beliefs, did it change the level of intimacy in your marriage, and if so, was it for the better or the worse? I could totally tell SOMETHING was up with my husband when he started to have his crisis of faith. I just didn't know what. He was always a million miles away, distracted, and totally not there even when he was physically there.
2. Can you share your innermost religious feelings with your partner? I am now a non believer also so we have been totally open to sharing new ideas about faith. We are still in this learning and research process and not sure what to believe anymore, but I would be pretty cool with whatever he chooses to believe. He usually always has good reasons for believing something. He usually does his homework before he shares ideas with me.
3. Does being able to share your religious feelings impact your ability to be intimate overall? THis can not be overemphasized enough! I know I've mentioned this in another thread, but I can't believe what a difference not having the "big elephant in the room" has made in our relationship. There is no fear to be truly honest with your partner. Your not worried that your partner with judge you or reject you for a thought or feeling you may have and want to act on it. It's amazing that the very thing I have been taught my whole life, (study, service, meetings, pray together) basically be a good JW couple and you'll be peachy keen, is the VERY things that blocked true intimacy for us because he NEVER wanted to do those things in the first ten years of our marriage and he couldn't tell me that! ( Breathe deep here, and a huge sigh of relief....)
4. I have used the analogy of the "other woman" when describing the influence of the Watchtower Bible and Tract society on our marriage. Hubby also consults "her" whenever he is making a decision. Would this analogy fit your situation, and if so, how does it affect intimacy? I love this analogy because I have never been in the position of an UBM. I was always the BM this past year. I have to tell you though, that it felt exactly the same for me on the other side of the fence. My husband was distracted, uninterested in me, a million miles away. I told him recently I thought he was having an affair this past year! ( The other woman was a bible and all you guys! HA) My best advice is if you want your partner to soften DON"T always be looking for there weak spot to break them. They know you are doing this even if it's on a subconscience level. I found it irritating and annoying, and I couldn't quite figure out what it was that was annoying me, I just knew I didn't like it. Gut feeling thing. Just "BE" with them. Love them unconditionally. Set the proper example in that regard.
5. Does your partner bring Watchtower materials to bed? Just the ones on Kama Sutra, oh wait that's not the WT - my bad! ha ha ha
6. Anything else you would like to share? Jgnat rocks! I love super smart women who like to try to make a difference for other people!
tetrapod.sapien

1. When one of you changed your beliefs, did it change the level of intimacy in your marriage, and if so, was it for the better or the worse?

at first it increased the level of intimacy, because when you go through the deconversion you both evaluate practically everything. the meaning of life, and devotion to each other. however, in my case, after a while, with the dust settling, the lines of communication closed as she did not want to talk about pretty much anything of sunstance, for she had to "protect her faith". no kidding. so the level is lower now, and it's for the worse as far as that vow before god taken is concerned. but personally, it is better because i have my mental freedom now. i plan on spending it with people who respect that.
heh, i just realized i gave you double edged answers. sorry.
2. Can you share your innermost religious feelings with your partner?

not anymore. she won't go there.
3. Does being able to share your religious feelings impact your ability to be intimate overall?

yes. worldview is a member of the category "most important conversation topics". and since conversation is communication, and communication is involved in intamacy, then it is a major factor in overall intamacy, as per your definition.
4. I have used the analogy of the "other woman" when describing the influence of the Watchtower Bible and Tract society on our marriage. Hubby also consults "her" whenever he is making a decision. Would this analogy fit your situation, and if so, how does it affect intimacy?

yes, this is true. gary buss said to me once not to fool myself in thinking that my wife is actually married to me. she is the wife of the WTS (jehovah in her mind surely) fist and foremost.
and yes, it affects intamacy. especially for an atheist. let's think about that for a second. she loves, intimates and is dedicated more to a nonexistent myth, than she is to me, the flesh and blood, manifestly real human partner. how would you feel? like a third wheel on a car made of cardboard.
5. Does your partner bring Watchtower materials to bed?

yes, but i bring Sir Richard Dawkins to bed too. i don't mind her having WT's and bibles around. it's weird, i feel closer to richard dawkins some evenings, than i feel to her. she must feel a similar feeling toward jehovah.
6. Anything else you would like to share?

right now i am sitting in the basement in front of my computer. she is sitting upstairs in the living room watching much music. this is how 50% of our spare time is spent. the other 50% involves physical activity that we don't always spend together anyways. since i left the truth, we have both tried to keep the relationship together. but there are no more candle lit dinners, and long hours of intellectual conversation with miles davis playing in the background. or walks through the autumn leaves and wine and cheese in parks. what would we talk about? the weather? that's for strangers. she told me she doesn't want to talk about any subjects that touch on any area of her "faith" at all. what does that leave us? not much of substantial interest for either of us.
tetrapod
jgnat

Thanks, guys! I kick-started the other one by PM'ing the UBM's I could remember. I might do that again.
freedomlover, I am glad you emphasized again that you hated being treated like a "special project". I guess there is no replacement for being genuine. From your angle, it appeared that your partner was withdrawing.
Isn't a fading JW in a terrible bind? They have no idea if their partner will follow them. If they "fess up" it might be all over. A terrible risk to take.
Tetrapod, that is an excellent point that sharing our worldview is a huge part of intimacy. If one or the other partner puts such discussions "off limits", conversation does get weird. My mom can only talk about surface things. This makes for really short conversations. "So, what birds did you see at the park today?" "That's nice." "I like your new hairdo." "Why, thank you." AND, having a conversation with my schizophrenic son is downright unpredictable. We visited today, and out of the blue he confessed to a random act of violence. He has no idea what precipitated it. Kind of bowled me and hubby over. Last year he horrified us with scavenging stories as he fed out of dumpsters and other people's backyard gardens.
xjwms

tetrapod
Your life is much like mine. Number 6 is the same.
jgnat

That's tough, xjwms.
Since I am married to a JW, I've learned to fill in my free time while he's fulfilling all his JW responsibilities. I work around it, and I get a lot of stuff done while he's not around. The rest of the time, though, we are still newlyweds that prefer to spend our waking moments together. We go shopping, the movies, restaurants, babysitting, swimming, walking, all together.
Except when I become a clingy pest, then he asks me if I don't want to go on the computer for a while?
sass_my_frass

I'm loving these polls, but I don't quite qualify to answer them as I'm the former witness, freshly married to my favourite thing, my ubm. So I'll answer from that point of view. 1. When one of you changed your beliefs, did it change the level of intimacy in your marriage, and if so, was it for the better or the worse ? n/a - my beliefs were already changing when we hooked up, and it was fabulous to be with somebody who was open to hearing it. 2. Can you share your innermost religious feelings with your partner? Early on I was very cautious about what to talk about. Didn't want to give a 'bad witness'. These days I think I bore him with it! I try not to use him as my sounding board too often, but his insights and new perspectives are very refreshing. My faith has morphed, and it's so liberating. 3. Does being able to share your religious feelings impact your ability to be intimate overall?
While I was changing I was very frightened, and it got in the way of a lot of joy. These days, not a chance! 4. I have used the analogy of the "other woman" when describing the influence of the Watchtower Bible and Tract society on our marriage. Hubby also consults "her" whenever he is making a decision. Would this analogy fit your situation, and if so, how does it affect intimacy? In my first non-witness relationship all of my reasoning would default to my JW training. I am still overcoming that but it took a lot of patience on hubbie's part - having to learn how much I could give up at any one time. I can see that if I ever decided to play the spiritual widow game, it would destroy our intimacy; there would appear the new, 'third thread' in the marriage rope. In the wedding talk, they say that it is Jehovah, but that means anybody who thinks they represent him. 5. Does your partner bring Watchtower materials to bed? No, and now that you mention it, I'm going to make sure that I never let it happen.
damselfly

I'm not an UBM, but I'm going to answer a few anyway I had a few months years ago when I was first D'fd while I thought I would try to get reinstated. What was I thinking?! My then husband would have been the UBM.
2. Can you share your innermost religious feelings with your partner? Then, no because ex didn't want to hear them. No discussion happened at all.
3. Does being able to share your religious feelings impact your ability to be intimate overall? Yes, how can I be intimate with someone who won't allow me to speak, let alone listen to what I have to say?
6. Anything else you would like to share? Knowing what I know now about the WTBS I couldn't imagine being married to a JW. There seems to be no room for you if you don't beleive.
My Jw background and not being free to express my feelings to my husband about religion, played a huge role in my marriage ending. ( well and he's a jackass too lol )
Too answer the orignal question, yes the intimacy level became non-existent, even when I snapped out of the trying for reinstatment phase.
Dams

carla

1. When one of you changed your beliefs, did it change the level of intimacy in your marriage, and if so, was it for the better or the worse?

2. Can you share your innermost religious feelings with your partner? no

3. Does being able to share your religious feelings impact your ability to be intimate overall? when you can't be free to discuss things it will affect everything

4. I have used the analogy of the "other woman" when describing the influence of the Watchtower Bible and Tract society on our marriage. Hubby also consults "her" whenever he is making a decision. Would this analogy fit your situation, and if so, how does it affect intimacy? The other woman, exactly. Unfaithful would be another. You cannot be going to someone else with something that will affect your spouse. We have no way of knowing just what is brought up to elders or others. Trust is lost.

5. Does your partner bring Watchtower materials to bed? Not while I'm there! Then I would have to get my C of C book and reread parts of it while I tsk, tsk about it!

6. Anything else you would like to share? why is this type so small? It would get too long and personal. All I can say is it's ALWAYS there. I think part of the problem is many of us ubm's know more of the rules and regulations than the jw's do! So there is alway looking to see if they will 'break a rule' or not. Then you wonder, do they know this or that is a no-no, is there new light? It just changes the entire fabric of the relationship when one is a jw. It always feels like there is a whole cong in a room with you. Rather puts a damper on life! You can never be truly free with that person again. It costs you dearly in ways you could never have imagined before.

IP: l9+YCRGA9s4+GsIf

jgnat

Wow, I am delighted at the quality of the replies. I'll need some time to digest. Thank you sass, damselfly, carla. More later.

INTIMACY Poll...UBM's I'm asking you

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