INTIMACY Poll...UBM's I'm asking you

by jgnat 30 Replies latest social relationships

twinflame

I was thinking about the topic of intimacy on the way home last night. It's something that's weighed on my mind a lot lately, since intimacy has become so strained and is now a dangerous topic of discussion in my marriage.
My husband is the closest representative of the WTS that I encounter. I hate the WTS with pure venom and the two of them are so hard for me to separate at times. But he isn't the WTS, is he? Sometimes I think I should try and explain to him how that affects our intimacy but I think he would assume I was asking him to choose between 'her' and me and he's already told me I would lose.
Just a thought...
TheListener

Twinflame,
Your frustration and irritation are palpable. I feel them myself. Sometimes I just want to shout that it's all crap and we should be united together, us against the world. Your husband is not the WTS. He is in there somewhere. He truly believes everything he does is for a higher purpose. I hope one day he sees how lucky he is to have a mate that cares enough about him to put up with this stress.
One of the frustrations I find is that the weaker or more faded one mate becomes the more spiritual the other mate becomes. The witness mate feels they have to prove something to the fading mate. It just makes things worse. For most this doesn't go on forever but it seems to be a knee jerk reaction to someone challenging your beliefs.
Good luck Twinflame. I hope things work out for you.
jgnat

Perhaps distinguishing between the JW put-on personality and the real person underneath, as Steve Hassan describes, will make you feel better. He says the real person is in there somewhere, even for those raised in it.
Who wants to listen to the JW parrot? They are predictable, all sound alike, and you know exactly what they are going to say for any concievable situation.
It is a personal hobby of mine to bring out the person underneath. I ask questions about interests and childhood and hobbies. I comment on the parts of my hubby's personality that is decidedly NOT JW, and remind him that it is THESE QUALITIES that attracted me to him in the first place. Dare I mention that I haven't read Hassan's book yet? But my instincts tell me that the more often you bring out the real person, the lighter the grip the society holds on your partner.
This way, you can be as fed up with the JW personality as the rest of us, and yet love the man you married. Let me know if this works.
Check_Your_Premises

It is a personal hobby of mine to bring out the person underneath. I ask questions about interests and childhood and hobbies. I comment on the parts of my hubby's personality that is decidedly NOT JW, and remind him that it is THESE QUALITIES that attracted me to him in the first place. Dare I mention that I haven't read Hassan's book yet? But my instincts tell me that the more often you bring out the real person, the lighter the grip the society holds on your partner.

Well what Hassan brings out is that the cult personality has the shields that block out any critical thinking. The idea is you have to get them out of cult mode, before you ask a challenging question. In that way they are open to questioning.
It is a complex dance that I have yet to grasp or master. I brought it up in telltruth's thread about duality in the cult member's personality. It didn't get a lot of play. There is an aspect of momentum involved. The longer they are out of the cult personality, the harder it is for them to get back in that mode. Also if you get them into a personality that conflicts with the cult personality, it will be harder to get back in to cult mode. That is one of the reason there are so many meetings. They wt is scared to death to give a jw more then a couple days away from them. The have to keep plugging them back into cult mode.
ONe aside. Hassan says to NEVER tell them when they are not living up to cult standards. If they are disobeying the cult, encourage it! (not overtly of course)
CYP
Why Georgia

1. When one of you changed your beliefs, did it change the level of intimacy in your marriage, and if so, was it for the better or the worse?
No change in the level of intimacy. The changes came because of the 2 kids not the WTS....although I do think him going back to the WTS while I was pregnant did cause a lot of strain and strife for quite awhile..not to mention ANGER! And definately dented the trust I have for him.
2. Can you share your innermost religious feelings with your partner?
Most definately. Last week I told him I don't think there is a God and if there is...he's ignoring me.
3. Does being able to share your religious feelings impact your ability to be intimate overall?
Nope..but whenever I find out some new juicy bit about the WTS screwing with another person it makes me angry he won't acknowledge the evilness in the Org.
4. I have used the analogy of the "other woman" when describing the influence of the Watchtower Bible and Tract society on our marriage. Hubby also consults "her" whenever he is making a decision. Would this analogy fit your situation, and if so, how does it affect intimacy?
In our marriage the other woman is his Mother....luckily he is putting space between his Mom and also has opened up that the WTS may be just as bad as the catholic church with how they handle pedophiles. That's a big step for him.
5. Does your partner bring Watchtower materials to bed?
No way - we use our bed for more productive things...like sleeping!
6. Anything else you would like to share?
If your husband is honest and trustworthy...whether he is a JW or not shouldn't be a problem. Unfortunately the Elders are mainly pervert home wreckers and he will always be targeted as long as you aren't a JW. This targetting will cause problems always.
jgnat

WhyGeorgia, this really stood out:
Unfortunately the Elders are mainly pervert home wreckers and he will always be targeted as long as you aren't a JW. This targetting will cause problems always.
I can definitely relate. What a lie they tell their singles, that marrying a "nonbeliever" is a conscience matter, then if the poor thing decides to go ahead and marry their lifemate, ever afterwards any problems are due to "bad decision making." Even if many of those problems are created by the Watchtower Society.
The worst time of the year for me is coming, where the WT articles will go on and on about the "pressures of the World" will be put on JW's to conform to society's ideas about holiday feasts and celebrations. Tell me, if the WT did not put this rule to abstain from holiday celebrations, would there be any "pressure" at all in a divided household?
Before I was introduced to the influence of the Watchtower society, Christmas was an unadulterated time of joy, celebration, food, family and gathering. Now it is always tempered with conflict. Thanks for nothing, Watchtower Society.
Why Georgia

Hi Jgnat,
I definately know what you are talking about. This is my darkest time of year. I was brought up loving the holidays. Halloween, Thanksgiving, Xmas. I have joked that my family celebrates everything that Hallmark invented a card for! LOL!
But ever since the first non-birthday with my husband and Christmas...From October until Christmas...I am so depressed. The battles, the little sharp jagged comments.
I'm sure you know.
Even though my wonderful husband isn't going to the meetings...he still has that stinking thinking.
I find it very had to find joy in something I once loved so much. It's also hard because I am trying to pass on joy for the season that I don't have to our 1 and 5 year old..
Sorry to complain,
WG
kiddotan

1. When one of you changed your beliefs, did it change the level of intimacy in your marriage, and if so, was it for the better or the worse?
N/A new what he was getting as have been friends (gasp, with a non jw) and worked together for years
2. Can you share your innermost religious feelings with your partner?
Yes, we don't agree with each other, we just except what the other has to say, neither of us have the much of aninclination to rant. If he starts, I start talking horses which is my only religon.
3. Does being able to share your religious feelings impact your ability to be intimate overall?
I believe it does for us, as is gives me an understanding of what holds him back.
4. I have used the analogy of the "other woman" when describing the influence of the Watchtower Bible and Tract society on our marriage. Hubby also consults "her" whenever he is making a decision. Would this analogy fit your situation, and if so, how does it affect intimacy?
Sometimes, when this happens, I just ask my dog very loudly to make a decision, or flip a coin.
5. Does your partner bring Watchtower materials to bed?
Not if he wants any intimacy EVER , he's got his office and garage for his space. Bedroom is our space.
6. Anything else you would like to share?
Having fun together (we are childless), making dates seems to work, who knows, we are only been hanging out for a few years.
jgnat

I think I am going to make a little cross-stitch masterpiece and hang it over my bed:
Bedroom is our space.
Thanks for your contribution, Kiddotan.
jgnat

1. When one of you changed your beliefs, did it change the level of intimacy in your marriage, and if so, was it for the better or the worse?
We both went in to the marriage knowing what the other believed. I would say, however, that my husband's interest in the JW's has progressed throughout our marriage. So I wouldn't say our level of intimacy changed.
2. Can you share your innermost religious feelings with your partner?
Sometimes. I have a deep love and trust for God. I feel rescued. I only can share these feelings in rare moments, because usually any religious conversation quickly degrades in to a Jehovah's Witness canned presentation.
3. Does being able to share your religious feelings impact your ability to be intimate overall?
Probably. On the other hand, I don't depend on my husband to take care of all my needs for expression. I use my girlfriends and JWD for much of that, just as he talks deep sports stuff with his buddies. But I can talk shallow sports stuff, like, "That fella is all arms and legs. He looks like a daddy long legs spider."
4. I have used the analogy of the "other woman" when describing the influence of the Watchtower Bible and Tract society on our marriage. Hubby also consults "her" whenever he is making a decision. Would this analogy fit your situation, and if so, how does it affect intimacy?
My analogy, my fit. I am a jealous partner. I resent the society when I sense he's consulting "her" before me. If I'm feeling fairly secure and well-cared for, this is not an issue. But if he's been distant, especially if he's fresh back from a meeting, it can quickly escalate in to a huge problem.
5. Does your partner bring Watchtower materials to bed?
Yes! But no longer when I am there. I don't bring my research materials to bed either. I want it to be our space.
6. Anything else you would like to share?
I am so proud of you for the quality of your responses, and grateful that you are broadening my perspective on the issues. You could very well be helping me write my first book! Thank you.

INTIMACY Poll...UBM's I'm asking you

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