INTIMACY Poll...UBM's I'm asking you

by jgnat 30 Replies latest social relationships

stillajwexelder

1 When one of you changed your beliefs, did it change the level of intimacy in your marriage, and if so, was it for the better or the worse?
Yes - for worse
2. Can you share your innermost religious feelings with your partner? Absolutely NO
3. Does being able to share your religious feelings impact your ability to be intimate overall? Probably not
4. I have used the analogy of the "other woman" when describing the influence of the Watchtower Bible and Tract society on our marriage. Hubby also consults "her" whenever he is making a decision. Would this analogy fit your situation, and if so, how does it affect intimacy? No we do not consult MOTHER - does not affect intimacy
5. Does your partner bring Watchtower materials to bed? YES but so do I - I also bring Dawkins like Tetrapod and once bought Raymond Franz
6. Anything else you would like to share? She has always got me to do teh resaerch -she never does any - not a student type
TheListener

OK, I’ll do my best.

When one of you changed your beliefs, did it change the level of intimacy in your marriage, and if so, was it for the better or the worse?
-- Funny thing this. My marriage was never especially intimate before my doubting and fading began. What with the pressures of serving in the cong., meetings, service, study, kids, television, extended family, etc. As my doubts increased and eventually solidified I wanted more intimacy. I felt the need to explain all the new thoughts I was having and the research behind them. I burst forth like a weak dam in a rainy season. I was shut down. I realize now that I was shut down as much for my tactlessness as anything else ( I really liken it to the new JW convert who won’t shut up). I decided right then and there to modify my behavior. I have slowly made my marriage more intimate than it was even before my doubts began. Since doubting and fading (in process) my personality has noticeably changed. I was very judgmental and condemnatory. I’m much more open and accepting now. My wife appreciates this – although she can’t quite understand how as a dub I was critical and as a fader I’m less judgmental (it makes perfect sense to me). We do discuss religious issues from time to time and I strive to be exactly the opposite of how I view the society – dogmatic. I put things forward as ideas and possibilities and we discuss from there. My final answer: Things are probably better; but may get worse when I make my final break.

2. Can you share your innermost religious feelings with your partner?
--No. The religious subjects we discuss are JW-Lite. They aren’t subjects that will deeply question her faith. On the rare occasion when a serious religious subject comes up I remain non-committal in my anti-jw stance. I fear appearing to her as the devil.

3. Does being able to share your religious feelings impact your ability to be intimate overall?
--Yes. But since my situation has improved overall I still feel good about where we are and I’m hopeful that it will improve even more.

4. I have used the analogy of the "other woman" when describing the influence of the Watchtower Bible and Tract society on our marriage. Hubby also consults "her" whenever he is making a decision. Would this analogy fit your situation, and if so, how does it affect intimacy?
--Sort of. I’d say the other woman doesn’t have as strong a grip as it would like. It’s the typical, when no one is watching things are different scenario.

5. Does your partner bring Watchtower materials to bed?
--Not in a self-righteous sense. Just occasional reading material. The more important question is: Does your partner bring Watchtower mores to bed? – Yes.

6. Anything else you would like to share?
--As I wrote this I realized that I’ve made a lot of progress in making my marriage happier. I know I got married too emotionally young; in my opinion this was due to the pressure a lot of JW youths feel to not commit fornication or uncleanness. I found a mate and said I do before knowing who I was or what I needed in a partner. I know it’s not a one-way street and my wife shares responsibility but I feel that it’s more my fault. Besides who could resist a man of my physical and spiritual qualifications . I long for the day when I can be completely open about my feelings and be accepted by my wife regardless of whether she agrees or not. She may never leave the truth, but I do feel she’ll accept me as long as I am a good husband in other areas.
Check_Your_Premises

1. When you changed your beliefs, did it change the level of intimacy in your marriage, and if so, was it for better or worse?
Not really. I guess I was so busy at the time she joined, that I didn't really miss her not being around as much. Now that I am not so busy, and I realize the danger our marriage is in I am desperate for every moment we can be together. So in a way, it is worse because she is gone more and her new "friend" decides her opinions for her. Before we could work it out together and compromise. It is better in that now I am a much more attentive husband and Christian.
2. Can you share your innermost religious feelings with your partner?
I guess I could. The problem is always that the second you say something not doctrinally correct, they have to correct you. I told her one time that the reason I don't spend alot of time talking to her about what I believe is because I know she doesn't really care. She tried to deny this, but I pointed out that there is no way anything I ever said would seem plausible to her if it ever contradicted a jw tenet. So speaking to her on spiritual matters isn't like speaking to a human being. It is more like speaking to a salesman.
3. Does being able to share your religious feelings impact your ability to be intimate overall?
Well she denies it but there is a bit of a wall between us. The bottom line is there is nothing I can ever say that is critical or contrary to the jw. If I did, she would become defensive and even hostile!
4. I have used the analogy of the "other woman" when describing the influence of the Watchtower Bible and Tract society on our marriage. Hubby also consults "her" whenever he is making a decision. Would this analogy fit your situation, and if so, how does it affect intimacy?
This sort of betrayal cuts deeper for women. For men, a physical betrayal cuts deeper. I have actually thought to myself, "well at least I am the only one who gets to sleep with her". That is not to say it isn't painful. For men, we like to think that our women look to us for security, comfort, and protection. When your wife looks to this outside group, and will only accept your thoughts if they conform to the jw's, it does make you wonder how she views you as a man. So I am good enough to pay the bills, fix things, and readjust her disposition every couple days. After that I am not needed. Men need to be needed. Otherwise we start to regress into a more primitive state.
5. Does your partner bring Watchtower materials to bed?
No. BUt we don't bring anything to bed besides ourselves. This question could also be used to inquire as to how the wt experience has altered our marital rites. Let's just say that there was an initial effort to bring our activities into the limits of Kingdom approval. That didn't hold up for to long. JW's only behave when other jw's are looking. My evidence is how so many df'ed or inactive revert to all sorts of worldy activities. They don't really believe it very stronly. They just conform when they are active because everyone else around them is.
6. Anything else you would like to share?
Probably the biggest challenge (assuming no children) to the ubm experience is not letting it effect 1. How the jw feels about the ubm and 2. How the ubm feels about the jw.
In the first case, the jw will at the minimum question the ubm's integrity since for some reason they just don't want to submit to God' truth! The challenge for the ubm is to not fit the profile. Do not become hostile. Do not become angry. Do not become OPPOSED. Your decision to not be a jw has to be grounded solidly as a matter of conscience, but you don't begrudge a jw for their beliefs. Constantly ask how you are viewed for your decision, and if the jw levels a charge to explain your lack of faith in the jw, ask them to provide other evidence or instances other then the jw, where you have been guilty of their claim. Don't let them pigeon hole you!
IN the second case, it is important for the ubm who wishes to save their marriage, to not take it all personal. Easier said than done, I know. You have to struggle with the conflicting problems of not taking it personal, but not being a doormat. Know yourself, and your emotions. Don't deny them, they will only fester. Discuss your feelings, but keep them focused on your SPOUSE, not on the jw's.
GoingGoingGone

1. When one of you changed your beliefs, did it change the level of intimacy in your marriage, and if so, was it for the better or the worse?
I was the one who changed my beliefs, and the level of intimacy changed initially from my end mostly, and for the worse. And since I am absolutely the verbal party in this marriage, when I pulled back, it was a noticable problem.
2. Can you share your innermost religious feelings with your partner?
NO
3. Does being able to share your religious feelings impact your ability to be intimate overall?
At this point in my exit, I really wish that I could share what I have learned with my husband. Interestingly, my husband and I have never discussed religious matters as a JW couple in the 20 years we have been married. We have discussed practical JW things - where is the new Kingdom Ministry, what hotel will we stay at for the next assembly - but never doctorine. But knowing that I no longer share his beliefs has been a problem for him, which is something that I found puzzling to begin with, because despite the fact that he is an elder, I don't know that he is truly a 'believer.' He believes the JW teachings because it's all he's known his whole life, but he is content to accept the WTS on their word because they say that he must. I find that mindset infuriating now, but I had it myself for a long time. I really feel that if he knew what I know now about the WTS, his 'faith' would be just as shaken as mine was initially. I try to be patient with him.
4. I have used the analogy of the "other woman" when describing the influence of the Watchtower Bible and Tract society on our marriage. Hubby also consults "her" whenever he is making a decision. Would this analogy fit your situation, and if so, how does it affect intimacy?
I was a JW, so I know all the 'rules', and thus I can predict what his JW-decision will be in any given situation. What bothers me is the amount of time he invests in the WTS persuits, time that he could spend with me, with our kids (instead of dragging them to the meeting), or doing something productive. The fact that he's an elder means that suddenly he'll have extra meetings, shepherding calls, etc. Frustrating.
5. Does your partner bring Watchtower materials to bed?
Nope - but he never did before, either.
6. Anything else you would like to share?
Leaving the WT is an emotionally traumatic experience - at least I have experienced it to be. Your belief system is gone, you are risking the loss of every friend you have ever had, and your spouse is dead-set against your actions. You are trying to figure out what you believe now (instead of just what you don't believe), trying to carefully back away from your longtime friends in case you are df'd, and trying to make new 'worldly' friends whom you cannot invite over to your home because your JW mate believes them to be bad association. The emotional support that I desperately need from my husband is not there, and instead I find myself in the postion of peace-keeper in our marriage when all I want is for him to tell me that everything is going to be ok. But his world has changed, too - because I no longer believe in the JW way of doing things, I seriously think that he was afraid that I would leave him or have an affair or something. So I had to be the emotional pillar for a while and smother HIM with affection, to reassure him that I still love him, it's just my beliefs that have changed. I can sooo understand that many women can't cut it. It's draining. But I am just delusional enough to believe that maybe someday, someday, he will listen to what I have to say and we can have an intelligent conversation about all of this. We'll see, I guess.
TD

1. When one of you changed your beliefs, did it change the level of intimacy in your marriage, and if so, was it for the better or the worse?
Overall there has been no change, but I'm speaking from the dual vantage point of being an insensitive, unobservant male and having made the decision to quit accompanying her to JW meetings many years ago. Even back at the time though, I had been vocal about my growing dissatisifaction for several years and she understood the reasons, so I don't think it ever had the "flavor" of betrayal.
2. Can you share your innermost religious feelings with your partner?
Yes. We discuss religion fairly often.
3. Does being able to share your religious feelings impact your ability to be intimate overall?
In our case, I would say, "No."
4. I have used the analogy of the "other woman" when describing the influence of the Watchtower Bible and Tract society on our marriage. Hubby also consults "her" whenever he is making a decision. Would this analogy fit your situation, and if so, how does it affect intimacy?
I understand the analogy, but don't think it fits us. My wife trusts the JW organization more than I do (Anything is more than nothing...) but as Witnesses go, she is extremely liberal. She's able to honestly look back and see that some of the worst advice she has received in life (e.g. Not going to college) has come from the JW's.
5. Does your partner bring Watchtower materials to bed?
We both bring reading materials to bed and sometimes these are WT materials. Honestly, I'm probably more "guilty" of this than she is.
6. Anything else you would like to share?
I think our situation is atypical. I truly believe some JW's attend not because of what is said, but in spite of what is said. (e.g. For family and community, not for doctrine.) One good example is spanking children. My wife comes absolutely unglued when anyone so much as suggests that an infant should be spanked for crying at the meeting. I still get a chuckle out of the time she went nose to nose with one old harridan and told her off loudly enough for the entire congregation to hear. (I wasn't there, I heard about it after the fact from a sister-in-law.)
jgnat

Boy oh boy. A full range of experiences. By the way, my hubby does bring the Watchtower to bed, and I hate it! So now he is a little more circumspect sayw, when I am otherwise occupied on the computer.
I was thinking more about the potential for deep intimacy in a marriage, and I think some men are not wired to support the full spectrum of emotions that ladies are capable of. I also use on a wide network of girlfriends for my confessionals. Hubby, also, cannot depend on maintaining my interest when he gets on one of his sports rants. He seeks out other men to get his sports fix. One of the benefits I deeply appreciate about marriage is the sense of teamwork, "us against the world", that, when disaster comes knocking (loss of a parent, financial crisis, whatever) my lifemate is at my side. What I likely miss the most is not being able to pray together. I am used to praying about nearly everything. I can do it nearly anywhere, too. My Anglican girlfriend swore she would hide under the table if I dared try it in a public food court. Hubby is not used to leading in prayer, out loud. I miss that.
twinflame

1. When one of you changed your beliefs, did it change the level of intimacy in your marriage, and if so, was it for the better or the worse? Absolutely. Considering religion was the core of our life and marriage, it changed things drastically.
2. Can you share your innermost religious feelings with your partner? I've tried, but there are a couple reasons why this has not worked. For one, I don't know what I believe in anymore and he attritubtes this to apostates stripping me of my beliefs and leaving me with nothing. Secondly, any discussion on my part is refuted in the traditional JW manner. I already know what he believes and how the scriptures are twisted to support those beliefs. I am not equipped with enough knowledge to stand up to it or prove otherwise. He would take delight in walking me to the end of the limb and chopping off the branch behind me, just as he says about those he meets in service. To sum it up, I would say I have no energy for those conversations anymore.
3. Does being able to share your religious feelings impact your ability to be intimate overall? I'd have to say, yes. I already know how he will view my opinion on anything I've learned and know he pities me for being mislead. These feelings don't bring about intimacy.
4. I have used the analogy of the "other woman" when describing the influence of the Watchtower Bible and Tract society on our marriage. Hubby also consults "her" whenever he is making a decision. Would this analogy fit your situation, and if so, how does it affect intimacy? Meetings always take precedence over any other plans. Two nights a week are spent with "her", along with Saturday mornings for service and Sunday meetings. No plans can be made if it's an assembly weekend. It's clear "she" is the priority in his life, especially since I think he has to go out of his way to show his loyalty to her in order to set an example for me. Does it make me feel intimate towards him when I know my place in his life? Hardly.
5. Does your partner bring Watchtower materials to bed? Literally or figuratively? Literally, no. But figuratively, you know there are some things that the WT condemns even between husband and wife, so again, the "other woman" is there with us too.
6. Anything else you would like to share? It just sucks knowing you will always be put behind the demands of the WTS. Leaving it has unquestionably affected our relationship but I think it bothers me more than him. He loves me but I have no doubt he could live without me but not without "her".
jgnat

Boy, more than ONE comment on how the Watchtower interferes in the bedroom, and it ain't just the magazines. I'd have to say I agree. I am forever sorry I brought up that oral is forbidden. He didn't know. I didn't know he'd take the instruction seriously.
After all, once you have tasted of the choice fruit....
twinflame

After all, once you have tasted of the choice fruit....

LOL jgnat....shouldn't that be the 'forbidden fruit'?
This was actually one of the areas hubby chose to ignore 'Mama's' counsel (towards himself) but I kindly pointed out that I didn't want to infringe on his conscience.
I just can't encourage hypocrisy. Surely celebrating a birthday can't be more wrong in Jah's eyes than oral sex.
jgnat

twinflame ... choice, forbidden, aren't they both as sweet?
Really, I am sorry for every time I brought up a regulation he wasn't aware of. Sure, it's fun for a while, watching him twist himself in to a pretzel as he strives to obey, but ultimately unsatisfying.
Like the time I told him he wasn't supposed to salute the national anthem at his beloved baseball games. The poor man now excuses himself to the bathroom when we all stand to remove our hats. I sing lustily. He slinks off to the bathroom. Can he not see how his manhood has systematically shrivelled away, every time he follows the dictates of those shrivelled old men?

INTIMACY Poll...UBM's I'm asking you

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