So just WHO made this universe?

onacruse

In the Christian theology, "God" is the Creator. But many scriptures intimate that Jesus was, at the very least, the "Maker." There are 2 distinctly different Greek words used in the Bible to describe the activities of these two beings; a distinction that the WTS (along with many other non-Trinitological belief systems) has made.

I'd rather not argue about the meaning of these two words, as they are very clear, and hardly worth (imho) wasting the bandwidth on yet further etymological dissertations.

I recently suggested that I could see Jesus as tinkering with DNA, and God giving him helpful suggestions along the way. This suggestion was, in no small way, based on the idea of how an "infinite Being (God)" could interact with It's own creation. How so, other than by way of a sub-infinite "manifestation"?...or call it by some other name; "Jesus" would suffice.

Yes, I know I'm playing into the issue of "intelligent design."

My bad.

Lady Lee

Hey Don't look at me. I didn't make this mess.

My bad.

maybe but I'm badder

Satanus

I don't think that the design was that intelligent. It seems to me that it was learning as it went along, an evolution of sorts. The earth/nature and the universe is still seriously fucked up. I tend toward a pantheistic/gnostic model. All our human tinkering here on this planet helps us to learn how things work. It wouldn't surprise me if we eventually start to improve the natural world.

S, the dreamer

Narkissos

In the Christian theology, "God" is the Creator. But many scriptures intimate that Jesus was, at the very least, the "Maker." There are 2 distinctly different Greek words used in the Bible to describe the activities of these two beings; a distinction that the WTS (along with many other non-Trinitological belief systems) has made.
I'd rather not argue about the meaning of these two words, as they are very clear, and hardly worth (imho) wasting the bandwidth on yet further etymological dissertations.

Which Greek words?

Narkissos of the bandwidth-waster class

forsharry

I'm gonna go with the Official Forsharry Chaos Theory here. I have no proofs for my theory...so I guess it's less of a theory and more of an opinion. Man. I really have to get back to the classroom.

I think that from denial that belief is born. People want to deny that this is all that there is, that there has to be more, a greater purpose than just living for a couple of decades, procreating and then dying. And in that state of denial people will wish to believe anything. So they believe that there's something greater than them, and somehow, someway that after they die they'll go to a kingdom of fine jewels and heavenly music and everything will be perfect and wonderful, because real life in general is struggle and extremes from pain to joy.

So in the end, here we are, carbon based life-forms stuck on a ball of molten iron mixed with other solid stuffs, hurtling through the galaxy at hundreds of thousands of miles an hour, with no final destination in mind really. I know that I might hear that look at the astronomical odds it would take for all of this to happen by chance? There simply HAS TO BE something greater out there. Oh, really? Considering that there are billions of galaxies out there, with trillions of stars, with a google of planets spiraling around them, made of all kinds of star-stuff and suddenly our 'astronomical' odds aren't so unbelievable after all.

gumby

and hardly worth (imho) wasting the bandwidth on yet further etymological dissertations.

As soon as you clear up those two hard words I'll answer. How am I posta answer when I cain't read the damn question?

I'll answer anyways.

Nobody knows......they guess.

Gumby

Nate Merit

Hi Satanus

That's precisely the case I make in Jehovah Unmasked. I find that it's very shocking to most people to suggest the 'intelligence' behind the universe is not terribly bright after all.

Nate

Frannie Banannie

"In the BEGINNING (to which GENESIS translates), the WORD (aka Jesus) was GOD.".....ergo.....word usurping God's place?

This would explain why Jesus is NEVER quoted as saying he made a sacrifice of his life for us, but rather he is quoted as having said, "It is something I MUST do." (ie: NOT a voluntary thing)

Elsewhere

I'm inclined to believe that it is impossible for "nothing" to exist.

All observations show that if there is a region of space with “nothing” in it, tiny particles spontaneously emerge and then disappear again… like a pot of water brought to a rolling boil. It is as if nature cannot tolerate a state of “nothing”.

The universe is forced to emerge into existence for this very reason. The "Big Bang" was the result of the previous universe being destroyed for whatever reason, which in turn forced the current universe to emerge. Should our universe be destroyed another universe will instantaneously and spontaneously emerge to replace it.

kid-A

I'm inclined to believe that it is impossible for "nothing" to exist.

I am inclined to agree, but at the same time, we are hopelessly bound by the limitations of human semantics. The very concept of nothing is limited by the premise that it requires a "something" to be subtracted from the equation. A being which by definition is finite (all organic life) cannot accurately conceive an object with no beginning and no end (the universe). A more difficult problem is the known expansion of the universe. The universe is expanding after beginning from an infinitely tiny point (according to Hawking), and is expanding along a fabric of space and time coordinates. These coordinates must therefore fill the empty space into which the universe is expanding. The question then becomes, if these coordinates must exist, are they finite? Can nothingness exist beyond space and time? owwww my head hurts.....

To answer the original question, there is no "WHO" required for the existence of a universe and ultimately leads to a circular argument: who made who? and who made that who? etc etc..... whoooo hooo!!!!!

So just WHO made this universe?

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