Removing "God"

by startingover 34 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  defd

  Jaff

  I know in Gods word, Jehovah PROMISED it and it will come true. He does not lie and everything he says comes true. Would you like to see those scriptures? That is just for starters!

  D.
• 

  jaffacake

  defd

  Just for starters, what interpretation principles do you employ, for example to establish when the words written are meant literally or symbolically?
• 

  jaffacake

  He does not lie and everything he says comes true.

  defd

  I do not disagree. But the problem I have is that none of the Watchtowers predictions have come true, so they have to keep abandoning them.

  The last example was the "this generation" change. How come the only religion to completely misunderstand this scripture for many decades was 'Gods organisation'?

  Is it not more likely that it is the interpretations that are all wrong, just as others keep telling JWs, JWs deny, but then they eventually and reluctantly abandon the teachings, one afer the other?
• 

  Oroborus21

  
  It is an interesting question to think about.

  As for the essential question, it is probably the case that God disfavors the use or reference to him in any monetary form. In his dealings as recorded in the Bible he certainly was fairly specific about just what sort of spiritual references he approved of and pretty broadly defined that anything else should not be used in worship, no idol, no image etc. But whether a mere reference to him would also be disfavored is debatable. (Those who believe in the myth that because "God allows" (i.e. hasn't sent a plague or hailstorm down upon wrongdoers) something to occur that it is thus evidence of his tacit approval might make an argument, but I don't think a very good one.)

  Setting aside those ethereal questions, I believe that the issue comes down to whether one is tradition minded and values cultural heritage or whether one is a modernist.

  Like much of American culture and especially such things as symbols, seals, public monuments, coinage, documents, etc. there is a great deal of heritage involved. Someone, a long time ago, decided that it was a good idea to put "In God We Trust" on some of our money. Aside from saving Kris Kringle in the remake of Miracle on 34th Street, the effects of the statement are irrelevant. Such neither profanes God nor hinders the utility of the coin.

  I for one enjoy a certain amount of pomp and circumstance and agree that we should indulge to some extent in our cultural heritage. So for that reason I am not supportive of any of these attempts to remove such cultural references from our world today and see them as proselytizing by politically correct buffoons with too much time on their hands and over-inflated egos. Too often the very people that would shirk from attempts at Christians or others to share with them the Good News about Jesus are in the vanguard of the effort to convert others over to their own secular way of thinking. Hypocracy thy name is a crusader.

  On the other hand, there is the premise that we are not bound by tradition nor should we ever be chained to the past. Coinage and money is a utility used not by the dead but by the living. And so there is some argument for it being subject to modern and contemporary cultural standards. If our society, or its designated leaders, thus decided that in this 21st century we should do away with the greenback and clunky coins and start using smart chips, tied to a personal bank account, so be it. If before that they want to remove In God We Trust, or put Elvis instead of George Washington on it, why not? Who says things should have to stay the same. Removing religious references certainly doesn't profane God, detract from his worship, and again doesn't hinder the utility of the coin. At one time Caesar, a virtual deity, appeared on the coin. Now he doesn't.

  Change happens and it happens to Change.

  -Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.
• 

  telltruth

  defd.. we haven't met however i read as many of your posts as possible. you seem caring, intelligent and thoughtful. i wanted to ask you your opinion on the descrepancies i've noticed on the subject of religion/politics as far as the wt is concerned. we know that the wt/jw has no respect for countries(borders),their governments, and for the most part their laws, flags, anthems and the like.. but something keeps nagging at me .

  why if all this disdain for the aforementioned items does the wt constantly hold up government policy when trying to make/prove a point to the jw readership. many jw's point to all the wonderful rights and freedoms we the goats have as a result of the wt/jw lawyers efforts. as if these efforts were on the behalf of us condemned to hellfire or what have you as opossed to ensuring the continuance of the wool remaining completely over the sheeps eyes. we know how the wt loves to knock worldly, higher education yet every single issue of the watchtower or awake! goes on to cite example after example of quotes from doctors, scientists, smart folk from wherever, to make some eroneous point that because this smart,educated person says this well we the jw must do that. without changing the subject to something completely irrelevant is there anyway you can assist me in understanding the constant discrepancies?.......telltruth
• 

  startingover

  Jaffa, good point!

  The last example was the "this generation" change. How come the only religion to completely misunderstand this scripture for many decades was 'Gods organisation'?
• 

  mdb

  defd,

  There is just way too much EVIDENCE in the bible, that the Paradise Earth is REAL.

  Actually, there is ZERO evidence in the bible of a "Paradise Earth". It is a conjured up doctrine required so that the WTS followers have something to hope for since the 144000 people who apparently go to heaven, was fulfilled in 1935.

  In reality, all of God's children go to heaven to be with Christ and the Watchtower's teachings regarding the 144000 are as erronous as their teachings on this "Paradise Earth" fallacy.
• 

  defd

  Telltruth thanks for the complement, but to start off with, the statement you made (we know that the wt/jw has no respect for countries(borders),their governments, and for the most part their laws, flags, anthems and the like.. ) That is not true. We respect the government and its laws and so forth. We obey God as ruler rather than men, when and only when their laws conflict with Gods laws.

  D.
• 

  mouthy

  It will not be ruled by Imperfect humans.D

  Oh have they changed that too??? I understood we were going to be ruled by the 144.000 & Jesus ( who by the way were imperfect humans I KNEW a few!!!!)
• 

  defd

  Mouthy when they rule, they will not be imperfect humans. They will rule in Gods Kingdom in HEAVEN as Spirit persons. They will be perfect.

  D.