Nark, this then brings us back to the beginning. This is comparable to what Solomon said at Eccl 1:6 "The wind is going to the south, and it is circling around to the north. Round and round it is continually circling, and right back to its circlings the wind is returning."
I have said this often, I will not deny people's history, this includes the history of the Nation of Israel. History of nations have been tampered with. In my culture there are some things I just won't accept, however, does this mean that I should have no faith and trust in the rest of my culture?
My cultural language is descriptive. One descriptive word will change the complexion of a story. When we translate the story in English, its not the same, no way. So, wouldn't this apply to other cultural languages?
Mind you, your topic gets a person to think which I do when I teach golf, I teach beginners to think for themselves. The most important thing to do when teaching is to stay positive, negatives are a no-no.
Golf
How did they dare?
by Narkissos 49 Replies latest jw friends
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Golf
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TopHat
Good Morning to friends on this side and Afternoon to my friends on the other side of the world.
Narkissos, I will read the links you have provided....Thank You for the research. So much to read and so little time.
You will find a lot in the links I provided on the top of this page (especially the Pseudepigrapha section at www.earlyjewishwritings.com). About early Christian literature you can check all the non-NT texts on the other site and, for Gnostic Christian writings, http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl.html. On the canon you can start with http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/richard_carrier/NTcanon.html -
TopHat
http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gosthom.html
113. His disciples said to him, "When will the kingdom come?" "It will not come by watching for it. It will not be said, 'Look, here!' or 'Look, there!' Rather, the Father's kingdom is spread out upon the earth, and people don't see it."
[Saying probably added to the original collection at a later date:]
114. Simon Peter said to them, "Make Mary leave us, for females don't deserve life."Jesus said, "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every female who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of Heaven."
Selection from Robert J. Miller, ed., The Complete Gospels: Annotated Scholars Version. (Polebridge Press, 1992, 1994).
I can see why these words were cut out of the scriptures...cookoo-cookoo
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googlemagoogle
hi tophat,
i didn't respond to your last post in a while, because i wasn't sure what position you take in your comment. but i think you agree with excluding this text from the bible.
this is a common strategy of bible-christians, searching for strange sounding parts and making them sound "cookoo".
but consider the following two things: it only sounds strange, BECAUSE it wasn't included in most canons. if it were, our culture would have become used to it and it wouldn't sound strange to us at all.
second, there are lots of strange sounding stories and sayings in the canonized books. like donkeys and serpents that talk, jesus offering his flesh and blood, paul destroying his body, not to mention revelation.
that said, i didn't feel comfortable that some long gone bishops selected the books i would have to accept and they didn't even agree about them.
my experience is, that if some bible-christian finds a strange sounding canonized text, they say it's "metaphors" or "symbolic language". but they usually don't apply the same standard to non-canonized or other-canonized texts.
i just can give you the advice to really look into who really wrote the different books included and excluded from the bible, who compiled the different canons, when all that happened and why it happened (and please don't use one of those pseudo-scientific bible-lexica, you might as well use the insight books). it's really really interesting. -
Narkissos
Google,
Just wished to point out that, as the excerpt TopHat pasted makes clear, logion 114 is probably a late addition into the Gospel of Thomas -- the end of the book being the easiest place to add something, as is clear in many canonical books too. Whence the double conclusion phenomenon which is pretty common (e.g. John 20--21). Even the "woe to anyone who adds" formulae attest the practice in their own way.
Back to GThomas 114, see the comments on http://www.gospelthomas.com/gospelthomas114.html
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AndersonsInfo
This past Sunday, a Bethel "heavy" was at a one-day assembly here in the South. He said that JWs have to listen and follow the direction of the Governing Body because what they speak comes "from the lips of Jehovah himself."
I'm dismayed, to say the least, that these men have gone this far off base with their myth-making.
If information and instruction comes from the "lips of Jehovah" directly to the Governing Body, than the brochure, "How Can Blood Save Your Life?" came from the "lips of Jehovah." This brochure is full of lies, so Jehovah's lips lie?
Lies have brought down governments, destroyed relationships, caused thousands of JWs to be disfellowshipped, and in the case of the persuasive information contained in the "Blood" brochure, it has been instrumental in causing people, since 1990, to take an action that could, and did for many thousands, result in death.
Barbara -
fleaman uk
Lies have brought down governments, destroyed relationships, caused thousands of JWs to be disfellowshipped, and in the case of the persuasive information contained in the "Blood" brochure, it has been instrumental in causing people, since 1990, to take an action that could, and did for many thousands, result in death.
I had been in for 30 years before i got the hell out of there and i dont recall hearing of even one death as a result of no-blood(in my area...not saying there werent cases elsewhere).Thousands of Deaths?You sure? -
Narkissos
Wondering what the last two posts have to do with the present thread. Not enough "big news" threads around?
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Aude_Sapere
I had been in for 30 years before i got the hell out of there and i dont recall hearing of even one death as a result of no-blood(in my area...not saying there werent cases elsewhere).Thousands of Deaths?You sure?
Dec 14, 2005 Fleaman - I personally know of 3. Several have been reported in the Awake! and Watchtower magazines. I remember in 1974 a young boy named 'Joey'. I think he was in Bergen County New Jersey. We wrote letters to him in the hospital to encourage him to remain faithful. Armageddon was just a few months away and we would see him when he woke up. He died due to lack of transfusion.
I know of 2 that accepted blood and then faced the judicial consequences. One was way back in '62 - she told me the story earlier this year. On JWD I've read dozen's of stories.
Thousands sounds like alot. It *is* alot. I think it's a plausible # over the past 60 years or however long it's been JW doctrine.
-Aude.
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fleaman uk
Wondering what the last two posts have to do with the present thread. Not enough "big news" threads around?
Well,i was responding to a post previously made in the thread.It happens you know.
Aude-sapere
I appreciate what you are saying..but the context was many thousands of blood related deaths since 1990.