Why did Jesus have to die? (page 5)

Shining One

The gospel is an offense to those who are perishing. It is foolishness to the natural man. God allowed for the possibility of evil in order to have real beings that would love and have fellowship with Him. Man fell and through one man sin and death entered the world. Through one man life was gained for any who would call on His name and believe in Him, as the savior of the world. Sin demands death in the holiness of a perfect, divine creator. God Himself paid the debt of mankind through the sacrifice of the son of God. How can you possibly view that ultimate act of sacrifice, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do", as something suspect and offensive? You should be ashamed of yourself. Would you sacrifice someone close to you to save some of your acquaintances, whether good or evil persons? Jesus paid the price, He endured the suffering and humiliation of a horrible death, not to speak of the wrath of the Father on Him as Jesus became sin for our sakes! You speak of love then ignore the ultimate act of love. You ignore the holiness and wrath of God for our sin. All of the divine attributes exist in ultimate quantities in the God whose image we are made in.
Rex

tetrapod.sapien

Man fell and through one man sin and death entered the world.

what evidence do you have for this? why should anyone here believe what you just wrote?

go ahead, show us why there is any truth to that statement rex.

TS

DanTheMan

How can you possibly view that ultimate act of sacrifice, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do", as something suspect and offensive?

Hey, if it all really happened the way the gospels say it did, then I think JC was great for stickin' it to the man and refusing to cave. But the whole sin/death/heaven/hell thing, those are just assertions piled on assertions.

startingover

Rex

It is foolishness to the natural man

You are going to have to explain this statement.

ghostbuster

Rex,

I couldn't understand if you accept that Jesus had to die or like me, see it as unnecessary hocus pocus.

The premise that someone perfect had to carry sin on his shoulders, be the ransom, the lamb and so on is steeped in jewish mysticism.

Navigator

As far as I know, the resurrection of Lazurus was a temporary one. He later died. Tradition has it that he was murdured by the religious authorities. Nepotism? I'm not aware that Jesus and Lazurus were related. I still believe that the whole crucifixtion thing was a demonstation that death was an illusion.

Jeffro

Hey, if it all really happened the way the gospels say it did, then I think JC was great for stickin' it to the man and refusing to cave.

If it all really happened the way the gospels say it did, Jesus was at the wedding in Cana 3 days into his 40 days in the wilderness, and John the Baptist was present when Peter and Andrew were selected as disciples even though he had already been imprisoned.

Mysterious

Several things regarding this argument in my opinion.

First, if god is all powerful Im sure he could have found another way to make things right than making his only son shed his blood for humankind. Second, shouldn't we be responsible for our own actions instead of expecting someone else to SUFFER to make things right? Third, why should Satan have been permitted to exist at all if he was only to be responsible for inflicting suffering on mankind.

The merciful god would have removed this vindictive being from existence immediately. The just god would have said we should not suffer for some cosmic struggle. A perfect god would never have created a being that had such a capacity to go wrong and harm others. And an all knowing god would certainly have forseen the eventual outcome of the struggle between god and satan and that there would be humans who proved faithful. He would not have felt the need to test his son either before giving over the kingdom, he would have known him to be loyal. And an all powerful god certainly would not have had anything he needed to prove, being very much in a position to dictate to mankind terms and conditions and even to influence them to still view him as loving. The concept of free will is unncesssary since a perfect god would not need "approval" of mankind and thus would have no reason to require worship by means of free will rather than enforced rule.

Narkissos

And an all powerful god certainly would not have had anything he needed to prove, being very much in a position to dictate to mankind terms and conditions and even to influence them to still view him as loving. The concept of free will is unncesssary since a perfect god would not need "approval" of mankind and thus would have no reason to require worship by means of free will rather than enforced rule.

mdb

Why is it that someone who espouses the love of God so much has an avatar of a mouse crippled by a laser printer's toner cartridge anyway?

That mouse was not crippled and was rescued once found. He lives on! The question is, how did that mouse get himself in there anyway?

Why did Jesus have to die?

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