Do you care if DefD stays a JW or not? (page 6)

Golf

Personal experiences taught me to believe in time.

Golf

Abaddon

DefD is massively conflicted. My brain would melt and run out of my nose if I subjected it to the level of dissonance he does.

Either he really doesn't get the fact his crackpot religion is disproved six ways before lunchtime everyday on this board alone , or he avoids dealing with it because he cannot let go - and if something gets too hectic to deal with he bails on the thread.. Whether this inability to let go is due to family ties, fear of disfellowshipping, having status as a Dubbie he wouldn't have out of the cult, or whatever, I don't particulary care.

Obviously unlike most religious hypocrites whose practice differs from their religion's doctrine (for example kiddie-fiddling Priests), he is probably only harming himself. It might seem harsh describing him as a hypocrite, but he is in a religion which manifestly puts great importance on works, regulations, appearances, conformation - yet rejects all of this as being beneath him and refuses to conform; it's as cynical and hypocritical as a Vegan who eats steak in private. And I think for DefD, having people remind him he is setting himself up for a massively disfunctional rest-of-his-life (the way he is going) is actually a kindness.

But whilst it isn't bad, what he does is no good, least of all for his self-respect. Unless he has built up a conciet about having "Gnosis' the rank and file don't as he is 'enlightend' as to all the problems with the Dubbie cult but still 'knows' it is 'the truth', in which case staying in is vital for his self image. Curiously, some people go through this, but normally even though they will go through a phase of saying "I will always be a Witness", they rarely end-up always being a Witness, either because they get honest with themselves, or get found out.

I just hope he gets out and lives well; it is the BEST 'revenge'. Living a secret lie-fe is NOT living well...

AuldSoul

DefD is massively conflicted.

With this, I agree. But I also recognize that there are only two required beliefs before someone can forgive almost an unlimited amount of demonstrated unfaithfulness on the part of the bOrg. People don't have to be gullible or stupid to be fooled.

If a person believes (1) that we are living in the last days (for which the JWs make a seemingly compelling case) and (2) that God must have an earthly organization to fulfill Bible prophecy, then the JWs seem to fit the bill as defined by the JWs fairly well (on the surface).

But Jesus said the stones would cry out if need be. It is hard to believe from a scientific standpoint, and even from a spiritual standpoint would be hard to imagine without holy spirit operating on individual stones. I mean, can you imagine a Governing Body for stones? A Body of Elders to punish unruly stones and aid "honest-hearted" stones to conform more closely with the Governing Body stone's directions?

But, I agree with Abaddon that DefD is conflicted. I hope he stays that way for as long as he is one of Jehovah's Witnesses, because there is only one alternative. I hope his family doesn't become thoroughly inculcated in the traditions of men.

AuldSoul

jgnat

I shoot for personal honesty. If a poster is living a double life mentally, I do have the urge to shake them out of it. Defd dances with his loyalty to this religion and when the awful truth is staring him in the face, he runs. Another poster like that is Cordelia. That girl drives me insane sometimes. I tolerate the dear because she is so much like my own daughter. So eager to please, and so indecisive. I was talking to my daughter about Cordelia last night and I told her, "At least you don't have manipulative parents to mess you up more."

I hope one day Defd faces his awful fear, and removes his mental shackles for good. If that leads him to the society or away, I am fine either way.

I shoot for personal honesty.

diamondblue1974

Defd dances with his loyalty to this religion and when the awful truth is staring him in the face, he runs. Another poster like that is Cordelia. That girl drives me insane sometimes. I tolerate the dear because she is so much like my own daughter. So eager to please, and so indecisive. I was talking to my daughter about Cordelia last night and I told her, "At least you don't have manipulative parents to mess you up more."
I hope one day Defd faces his awful fear, and removes his mental shackles for good. If that leads him to the society or away, I am fine either way.

When I see Defd posts and indeed Cordelia's I see people who are at a certain stage of their psychological and spiritual move away from the organisation; they may indeed return they may not..its their decision.

Much of us that have been there have all struggled with our inner self and have been conflicted either physically, spiritually or otherwise, in my view such indecision is natural and where JWs are concerned is evident of how well our minds were controlled at the hands of the organisation; we would sooner run away from the reality of a situation rather than face upto it and deal with the effects. I see Defd and Cordelia as no different and like you hope that some day will find their strength to do what is right for them.

DB74

anewme

I want Defd to be happy, he and his family, that's all, whatever way he finds it.
He is pioneering his own way through this life.
I wish him well.

Finally-Free

Do you care if DefD stays a JW or not?

No. Why should I? His decisions have no effect on my quality of life.

W

under74

I could care less. He won't write my purposal for a doctorate program Im trying to get into and he continually calls me "mean"...even though he doesn't seem to think his past posts have anything to do with it.

AlmostAtheist

My best hope is that Defd considers long-term effects on his children. I lost so much of my childhood by being a grown-up child and teenager in the org and I can never, ever get that back. I believe that is very possible to raise morally responsible children outside of the org and that they can have a very 'normal' childhood that will enable them to be come extraordinary adults due to better understanding and acceptance of cultural and religious bias.

Yeah, that's the one that bangs in my head, too. "Won't someone please think of the children?" [hysterical unnamed Simpson's woman] I hope he's raising his kids as humans, and not JW's.

To the others, I'd be careful about trying to "figure" people out, A human being is not a simple math sum, 1 + 1= 2

Such wisdom. Thanks, Ev. Beautiful thought.

Frankly I have become nauseated at his clear lack of loyalty to what he professes [and the word 'hypocrite' floated by as well]

What exactly does he "profess"? He seems to have redefined "JW" to mean what he wants it to mean, then he lives up to that. If that's true, is he really a hypocrite? Maybe there's a technical level of hypocrisy -- making a show of being a "real" JW at the meetings, all the while being a "DefD JW". But I really don't care a whit if he presents a hypocritical face to the congregation to avoid conflict with a toxic group. The important thing is his inner self, and the happiness of himself and his family. (That inner conflict mentioned earlier is a killer, I hope he's avoiding that)

Telling DefD that since he's a JW, he must believe [some warped Watchtower doctrine] seems like when I was a JW and I would tell people in field service that since they are a Catholic, they must believe in Hell, or Trinity, or whatever. Some would say, "No, I don't personally believe that" and I was arrogant enough to say, "Yes, you do." WTF? *I* think I can tell *them* what *they* personally believe?

What would be totally great is if DefD is only one of a huge group of JW's that are thinking on their own and living by their own rules. The Watchtower would have no choice but to loosen up, or implode. Sweeeeeet.

Dave

mouthy

I agree but............................................Those individuals who have that close intimate relationship and who serve God, my ? would be, What God do they serve?

D.

AS for me I serve the LORD as the Heavenly Father said I should ... (Romans 10:9-13) Phil 2:10,11)

Do you care if DefD stays a JW or not?

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