1.5 ^ 1/10 = 1.041
4.1% annual growth.
JW Kids Leave the Organization: Facts
by Maximus 141 Replies latest jw friends
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SEAKEN2001
tj,
your comment about integrity seems weighted to the cynical side of life. My father would agree with you, seeing very little integrity in the human race in general. While I agree that those without integrity get most of the attention I cannot agree that this reveals a lack of integrity in general. Doesn't it have more to do with personality and opportunity than actual moral integrity? Many a horses ass has center stage because their personality lends to public viewing. They like the attention even if it is negative. Others, who are indeed good men reluctantly take the stage in order to find an outlet for their displeasure. Others, who may equally as good-hearted, may never come forward and instead retreat into the background. They may or may not act overtly depending on their personality.
Also to be considered is fear. It is hard for many good people to face their fears. They may object to the organization but are afraid to face consequences of revolt. I'm not ready to cast the brand of "gutless" and "lacking in integrity" on these people. I know what it's like when you have family in and you're afraid you will lose them if you speak out. You may be willing to risk it personally. But that does not in itself make you a man of integrity.
The dynamic here is tremendously complex and I would like to suggest that you try to view it from the perspectives of those who have more to lose than you do. In the overall scheme of things you are more able to help your own family and community by your actions locally or in private than you are on an organizational or national level. Does lack of a public agenda make these men of less integrity because you can't personally hear them speaking? Think please before you open your mouth to judge.
I otherwise agree with your sentiment. Certainly it is a good thing when people in high places stand up with integrity and act in behalf of others who are being abused by the system. The number of people who are in a position of power and also men of integrity may be limited. But any reform will not come from within the "club". It will be forced upon them by their constituants. So the real work is in the field among the R & F. And if you look closely you can see many fine deeds being done among the JW/xJW communities that may ultimately make a difference in spite of the "club".
Sean
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jurs
What a GREAT topic. I don't have any statistics to offer but I have 2 kids and that sure gives me the inside scoop on my former hall. It seems to be that many of the kids live double lives and once they get caught their disfellowshipped. Recently one JW boy (14 years old) got kicked out of school for possesion of drugs. I had talked to his mom , this happened just before I DA'd myself, and she said she could not think of a single elder that she could call. her and her husband cried and prayed but felt they couldn't turn to anyone. Another girl told my daughter when we left the org that she wished her mom would leave too. Her mom studies.
I also wanted to add that I think ANYONE can make a big difference.I was a non important pip squeak in my hall. I had no family in and had a non believer husband. I was the weak sister sort. I was very insignifcant in my hall. Now thats all changed. The ridiculous title of apostate has made me this dangerous threat!!!! I've called bible studies, given out literature to several people and openly educate people like co workers , family friends and another weak sister who hadn't been going to meetings. I had an effective heartfelt talk that was sucessful with 3 people so far. The weak sister an I talked for hours and she felt the same way. She never knew others felt as she did and I referred her to COC. To make this short and sweet without all the details, I know I have already made a difference in some lives and I have only been out since May. I'm no Ray Franz but I like to do my part !!!!
Jurs -
SEAKEN2001
Way to go Jurs! That's what I'm talking about. I applaud all you do to educate people and help them with their own recovery from cult abuse just as much as those who are working on a national level. You are all powerful.
It's unfortunate that in congregations where there is a measure of love among the brothers and sisters that the young tend to grow up fairly well adjusted to the JW lifestyle. This is the case here. Most of the youth in my wife's generation have actually stayed with it. A few got DFd/Reinstated. Only a handful left for good. But I do see the difference from my own town in another part of the country. Most there did not stay in and all led double lives. I was perhaps the most serious of all the kids about "the truth" but even I could not resist leading a double life. I can't see any kids successfully living up to the WTS idea of what is "holy" for children. The emotional and mental damage this does is terrible. Guilt is what keeps unhappy kids in and makes them return. But, here where my wife grew up she actually thinks this is normal! This area was definitely not normal and it is just now beginning to morph into the typical JW community (Due to families moving in and out and being influenced by numerous "Bethelites"). Just a few months ago two of the "fine young brothers" were arrested for possessing a handgun. I never did find out what happened with that but it illustrates how kids are not content to play the "saintly" JW role.
Sean
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teejay
Hello, Sean. I'd say 'welcome to the board' but you've been here longer 'n me!
My father would agree with you, seeing very little integrity in the human race in general.
Your father is a realist, imo. Very little integrity exists, only a mob mentality or, saying it more gently, a lemming mentality... an over-riding desire to be accepted, to follow, to not make waves. All of these behaviors stem, imo, from a lack of willingness to think for oneself.
While I agree that those without integrity get most of the attention I cannot agree that this reveals a lack of integrity in general. Doesn't it have more to do with personality and opportunity than actual moral integrity?
Maximus said it well when he said that he was stunned when no one raised a voice when great men (Ed and Ray) where treated so shabbily after decades of slendid service. No doubt many of those silent voices knew that the ugliness visited upon those fine people was not justified, but they remained silent. It's my contention that if they were indeed good people, they would have spoken up -- said something, done something -- if not for their friends who they'd worked with side by side for decades, then for the sake of truth and what was/is fair and just. That they didn't points to a severe character flaw. With friends like them...
Also to be considered is fear. It is hard for many good people to face their fears. They may object to the organization but are afraid to face consequences of revolt. I'm not ready to cast the brand of "gutless" and "lacking in integrity" on these people. I know what it's like when you have family in and you're afraid you will lose them if you speak out. You may be willing to risk it personally. But that does not in itself make you a man of integrity.
I am acquainted with the reality of risk... of loosing the freedom to be in my mother's company. I know others in my situation as well. Balancing my love for my family who are still in with an equal (greater?) love of universal truth is not easy and I don't mean to make it sound that way. Yet, the example that others have set when it comes to personal sacrifice for the sake of real truth I do not ignore. I will not ignore.
As far as their being "afraid to face consequences" I say (excuse my French) "bullshit." I never held a position in a congregation above aux. pioneer. A big part of that is due to my inability to kiss ass. I told men, all of them from DO on down, exactly what I thought. So, I paid the price of never holding an office. Was the price overwhelming? Too high? I don't think so.
After decades of association, Bill B. discovered a heinous truth about a WTS policy. Virtue moved him to 'step down.' Could others do the same? I think so. Why don't they? And if not 'step down,' why don't they at least become more vocal? Because they are afraid? Damn right. Afraid of loosing their position. Their freakin' position as a low-level flunky in an evil religion is more important than standing up for what's really. Should my respect for such people be higher than it is? Should I cut them some slack, be more understanding? I don't think so.
Think please before you open your mouth to judge.
I do and I will. You do the same. Btw, I don't consider what I've done judging. I haven't 'judged' anyone.
tj
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Eusebius Hieronymus
Has anyone notice this thread received over 3,500 hits?
There's a message in this beyond the ordinary.
Jerry
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LDH
Just found this thread, posted while I was away.
For myself, I will never go back. But what pisses me off the most about articles like the one the thread is based on, it will heap loads of guilt on parent's heads.
Any child of active JW like me better go on the offensive now, because you are going to hear about this article from your parents, who are victims of the lies perpetrated by 12 angry men.
NOWHERE in this whole friggin article does it say or even insinuate that there are good reasons that young people have left the JW. Just more talk about the sins we all commit, to make our parents cry themselves to sleep.
If I had a gun, I'd start at 117 and work my way to 125 and 360.
I am disgusted.
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proandcon
Several years ago, while preparing a talk on youths in jah's org for the DC, a DO told me that the attrition rate of JW youths in the NYC area was at epidemic proportions - 9 out of 10 left by age 20. He realted poor and irregular family studies as the reason!
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waiting
Howdy Pro,
Nice to meet you (I see the Big*1* beside your name). As a parent of three (none in the org.), I'm proof of what LDH (Lisa) says above you - the parents take all the blame. As your DO said the same.
If the kids leave, it's either the pull of the world or the parents fault. And if the parents did the proper studying, field service, etc., with the child - the pull of the world couldn't get them.....so it's the parents' fault.
And as Lisa brought out, parents do cry themselves to sleep because of the WT-inflicted guilt put upon them for having failed - once again.
According to the WTBTS, there is no "good reason" to leave. It's all the child or parents' fault. Never the WTBTS teachings.
waiting
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BIGDADIO
MY WIFE CAME FROM A FAMILY OF 10 CHILDREN. OF THAT 10, ALL WERE RAISED IN THE WITNESS IDEALOLGY. THERE IS ONE LEFT THAT IS STILL ON THE JW TRAIN, TO: DESTINATION NOWHERE... ONE IS BEING DRAGGED BY THE TRAIN, BUMPING ALONG ON THE RAILROAD TIES, GETTING ALL BEAT UP. THE SADDEST IS THE THIRD PASSENGER, THAT WAS KILLED WHILE WHILE TRYING TO WORK FOR THE RAILROAD OPERATING THE TRAIN. THIS PASSENGER, TRYING TO LIVE ON A SHOE STRING, CUTTING CORNERS,USING OLD EQUIPMENT FOR HIS SELF EMPLOYMENT, SO THAT HE COULD SERVE THE RAILROAD WHERE THE "NEED IS GREAT"-DIED TRAGICALLY AS A RESULT OF THIS SELF EMPLOYMENT! OF COURSE NO "SECULAR, wORLDLY, MATERIALISTIC" LIFE INSURANCE WAS IN PLACE. HE LEFT A YOUNG FAMILY BEHIND IN A BAD WAY FINANCIALLY, ALL FOR THE SACRIFICE OF SERVING WHERE "THE NEED WAS GREAT". HERE IS THE REAL "CORKER" THE DISFELLOWSHIPPED FATHER OF THE YOUNG MAN, WHO WAS NOT ALLOWED TO TALK TO HIS SON, WAS ASKED TO SIT IN THE BACK AT HIS OWN SON'S FUNERAL, AND THEN GET THIS....SINCE THE THERE WAS NO MONEY TO PAY THE FUNERAL HOME, THE FATHER AND TWO BROTHERS OF THE DECEASED (NOT WITNESSES EITHER, AND TREATED AS OUTCASTS) WERE ASKED TO PAY THE FUNERAL HOME FOR THE EXPENSES FOR THE PRESENTATION, AND DISPOSAL OF THE DECEASED. THE FATHER AND TWO BROTHERS PONYED UP THE MONEY, AND PAID THE BILL. WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE? WHEN YOUNG ONES AND EVEN OLDER ONES IN THE CONGREGATION HAPPEN TO SEE THIS KIND OF INSANITY FIRST HAND, IS IT ANY WONDER THAT SO MANY ARE JUST GETTING SICK OF THE WHOLE SITUATION ON THE WATCHTOWER EXPRESS TO NOWHERE? THEY CHOOSE TO GET OFF THE TRAIN, AND USUALLY STAY OFF. ALL THE MEETING ATTENDANCE, PERSONAL STUDY, AND FIELD SERVICE, IF DONE TO THE "REQUIRED AND ACCEPTABLE LEVEL" IS NOT GOING TO CHANGE THE OUTCOME OF THE RESULTING DYSFUNCTION, AND EXODUS BY THE PASSENGERS FROM THE TRAIN. ANYWAY, THAT IS A LONG, LONG, STORY TO SAY THAT 7 OUT OF 10 CHILDREN IN MY WIFES FAMILY LEFT THE ORGANIZATION. [email protected]