Many Questions

by urstruly 99 Replies latest jw experiences

carla

What does being free to you all mean? Being able to swear and live inmoral life?
How many times has a jw come and posted that exact phrase? What a canned response, that alone should tell you how much you are still under the control of this dangerous cult. You have been programmed to believe that everyone who leaves becomes immoral. That is mind control. You may have left physically but not mentally.
As for your experience with child molsetation I am very sorry you had to go through that. However I wonder what the response from the elders would be if the man who molested you WERE a jw instead of Catholic? As there were not two witnesses to your molestation they simply would have said, 'it never happened' and you would have been put in danger for many more years most likely. See Silentlambs web site.
If they could believe and leave others alone that would be one thing, but they don't. If they could be allowed independent thought and action and not micromanage their members life that would be one thing. They tell their members that if a spouse or family member do not believe in the governing body is equal to God, then they are of Satan and evil. They break up families every day. They come between marriages, child/parent relationships. The fact that you cannot empathize with these situations only shows me that you are still under the influence of mind control.
As for there being 'good' things about jw's, you could say that about almost any group. I'm sure the German citizens that were not being affected by the Nazi's in a personal way could say the same thing. The German's who had courage could see the evil of the Nazi's and help their fellow man, the Jews of Germany. For some of the members of Jim Jones, I'm sure for a short while they could say their life was improved as well. We all know how that one turned out. Take any facist, cult, totalitarian gov., dictatorship, communism , etc.. and some of those members will tell you their life is greatly improved. So what? does that make that group a noble cause simply because they are 'sincere'?
I make others aware of the destructive cult of Jehovah's Witnesses not because it will help my situation (trying to get a loved one out) but because I don't want anyone to go through the hell the organization has put my family through.
You seem completely unaware of what this organization reallly is, the false prophecies, the blood issue and how they have misrepresented the entire issue, their blood guilt because of it, the lies, the misquotes, the fact that they DO harbor pedophiles, and this list could go on and on.
You may not like all the sites you see exposing this organization for what it really is, but I suggest you get accustomed to them. There are new ones everyday. If you take a look at history no facist, dictatorship, communist, etc.. government has been successful in their book banning or burning campaigns. The destruction of scholars and learned men and women was never successful completely. Often they made the 'forbidden fruit' all the more valuable and wanted. Grassroots or undergrounds sprang up. The exjw world will not be content to be just an underground secret society unto itself. I for one will not let it be. I will continue to warn others, write government officials, write newspapers and television shows. I may be just one person but I will not regret that I did nothing to expose this evil cult.
I wish you the courage to learn and research this destructive cult. Can you find the courage in yourself to really learn the truth about this so called 'truth'?
Truth should always be able to withstand scrutiny.
carla
blindersoff

I heard a 13 year old say his goal was to get baptized. Really, how much diffrerent is this than infant baptism? If he decides when he is 21 that he no longer believes the WT is equal to God, then he is DF.
His family will no longer speak to him. Is that a good thing?
B
carla

P.S.- why are you hiding behind a false name?
TheListener

Welcome urstruly. You have strong opinions and aren't afraid to share them. I like that. We need that here.
I'll be honest, though, your post showed a true lack of knowledge regarding the effects of disfellowshipping and being considered disassociated. These are truly heartwrenching situations.
The comment you made about being free -
What does being free to you all mean? Being able to swear and live inmoral life?
Why does being free have to boil down to immorality and swearing? A witness can do those things if they choose to. Being free is about the mind. Being free is the ability you and I and so many others have to read and post on a site such as this without repurcussions from friends and family.
If you truly knew how devastating it is to lose your entire family and social network with a simple announcement at the beginning of the Service Meeting I don't think you would have been so strong in your judgment of some here. Yes, even though you issued a 'who am I to judge' disclaimer that is exactly what you were doing.
Perhaps you should ask some here who were born into witness families how much choice they really had about which religion to become. Common you say? Most parents expect their children to become the same religion they are you say? I agree. Therefore, when one gets disfellowshipped/disassociated for not agreeing with some doctrine or disassociated because of some disapproved action like joining the YMCA they are entitled to be frustrated and angry over their situation. A situation that they didn't really have much choice in. Nevertheless, they lose contact with loved ones and friends. When new converts are made in the field ministry, at which point is the doctrine of disfellowshipping discussed in depth? When is it explained that being expelled from the congregation means a complete and total cutting off? Where is it explained that you will have to meet with 3 elders forming a committee and be judged by them as repentant or not?
You see it is easy to dismiss many here as angry bitter people who should just move on. But, that is simplistic. We are doing an educational work. Our educational work is every bit as important as the Society's educational work. They are trying to save souls; so are we.
Country Girl

Your post is all very hunky-dory: don't judge people; accept it if they want to live and believe in it, etc. That's all well and good, and I agree totally if it were not taking people's lives. Before 1968 (I know this, I was there, and the literature backs me up) they did not agree with organ transplants. They did a complete turn-around sometime in the 80's and said that it was up to a person's conscience. There's another little sidebar here: organs contain blood, whole blood. They have NOT changed their stance on whole blood, so how can someone logically accept an organ transplant without violating the Bible on the blood stance? I don't get it.
The problem with your logic is that this cult has killed people indirectly, through requiring them to place their faith in an organization who says they are "spirit-directed" and yet, at the same time, claims there are no prophets, or prophecies, in this day and age. Truth is truth is truth. It remains the same, no matter what. Facts can't be changed, and the Witnesses are notorious for changing the facts, basing it on NEW LIGHT. So, what are they going to say to all the families that lost their mothers, brothers, fathers, and sisters.. all the children that lost their parents because of a doctrine they decided to change in the 80's? Woops, sorry! At least they'll come back in the resurrection!
That's not gonna fly. You can't sit on the fence in the face of death. You say "Well, I believe they are spirit directed, but they are imperfect, so it may change, and SORRY for those that lost their lives because of this doctrine, and their families, too. But if those families choose to be Jehovah's Witnesses, then they'll see them in the New World." That doesn't make those babies crying for their mothers feel any better. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. That doesn't replace the holding, nurturing love of a Mother for those babies. They're gonna grow up without a Mom's love because she chose to sacrifice herself to an organization that would take her life based on imperfect interpretation of scripture and a lie. Admittedly, that was HER choice, but our choices affect those around us, including our children and families. Our lives are all interconnected through each other, and each choice we make affects those around us. Our responsibility as loving human beings is to acknowledge and honor those whose lives we touch.
To dedicate our lives to a religion predicated on lies is a sin to the creation we are. It is irresponsible and negligent. If you can live with, and defend, knowing that people take others' lives based on lies, and be okay with that, then you are responsible for your own decision.
If you can live believing that those 6,000 posts on SilentLambs are just a lie: good for you. The Witnesses always seem to dig into the Catholic church for their movement of child-molesting priests, yet they ignore the child molesters in their midst. Do you think they are *all* lying? If even one case was covered up, it's too many.
Sure.. live and let live. LET LIVE is the key words here. They didn't let live those who needed a transplant; they didn't let live those who needed psychiatric help after a molestation, etc. If you want to defend a religion like that, then you go right ahead, but I have a feeling that you won't have a whole lot of company.
I also feel you won't feel very good about yourself.
CG
kid-A

What does being free to you all mean? Being able to swear and live inmoral life?
Statements such as this simply confirm the extent to which you are still under the mind control of the Watchtower corporation. Do you honestly believe that people leave this ridiculous cult so they can start swearing and having illicit sex? Do you know how many ACTIVE jehovahs witnesses are involved in drug taking and sexual immorality? Let me tell you what freedom means to me:
1) Recognizing the persistent history of lies and deceptions perpetuated by the watchtower corporation and its presidents from 1874 until the present time wherein they have proven themselves false prophets.
2) Being open minded enough to realize the horrid things this organization has done to thousands of lives across the globe with its use of mind control and other brain washing techniques while simultaneously becoming a MULTI-BILLION dollar corporation.
3) Recognizing the WTS lied to the rank and file for over a decade by covering up its membership in the United Nations.
4) Standing up to an organization that encourages parents to MURDER their children with an idiotic, ill-conceived ban on blood transfusions.
Finally, your point that all religions have problems with child molesters is meaningless. Jehovahs witnesses are the ONLY religion with a 2-witness policy wherein in the absence of 2 witnesses to an act of child abuse, the abuser is automatically exonerated and the authorities are NOT contacted once the "elders" have dealt with the situation in their own, illegal justice system.
I suggest you do some real research on these topics before you make blanket defense statements for the watchtower corporation. SILENCE = COMPLICITY.

delilah

quote"As for your experience with child molsetation I am very sorry you had to go through that. However I wonder what the response from the elders would be if the man who molested you WERE a jw instead of Catholic? As there were not two witnesses to your molestation they simply would have said, 'it never happened' and you would have been put in danger for many more years most likely. See Silentlambs web site."

I was thinking the same thing here. The other thing I would like to know is, you asked why would God need our help in exposing the lies?...well, why does he need our help in bringing as many people as we can, into his organization? Why does He need us at all, we are imperfect human beings, who seem to cause him nothing but grief?

I have faded from the truth, and I have not gone on to lead a life of debauchery, nor do I take illicit drugs, I'm not a heavy drinker. I am living a good life, married with kids, who are into sports, and other things that keep them busy, and out of trouble. My husband and I teach them to have high moral standards, and to be good people, and to get good grades in order to further their education.They are allowed to make choices, and we will NEVER ever, turn our backs on them, for not wanting to worship a certain way. The FDSC like to say, that all who leave the "truth" have gone on to lead horrible, worldly lives, and turned into worshippers of the devil.....blah, blah, blah. NOT TRUE.

There are those who are very happy living their lives in the "truth", and that's fine for them. I am not one to judge them, however, now that I'm learning how treacherous the "truth" actually is, I wish to God my family would leave....and they are not happy in the truth, I might add. They always have excuses as to why they can't make this meeting and that, or this assembly or that...that's not happiness....that's a burden. A burden that the society puts on their members. But it's the "truth", by God! Thank god, I'm out.

BluesBrother

I am glad you had a good experience within the organization. I too never experienced the terrible things that some others have experienced, The JWs are mostly sincere in their beliefs,

Q} does that make everything alright?
What about the lives ruined because of missguided adherence to laws that have since changed anyway? Is it right that a loving father is shunned by his daughter, just because he realises that his prior beliefs were wrong? Is it right that Gods name is besmirched by the gory Witness writings about what God will do at Armageddon?

You may have seen worldly teenagers in a bad situation,but how would you react to see an otherwise clean cut kid refusing a lifesaving transfusion and parroting the pre taught phrase "I would feel as if I had been raped?" Such misguiding is not only wrong but immoral . The Pharisees of Jesus day avoided moral sins but did that make them O K to Jesus? On the contrary he denounced them as teachers because they twisted scripture, claimed to know the truth but taught falsehood.

br> Those ones who left to 'have a good time' have largely done so and put all this behind them. Those of us who post here are motivated by higher principles. We care for thoose still trapped in ignorance , we care for the concept of truth .
Please give us a little more credit.
rebel8

Hi urstruly, and congratulations for extracting yourself from the org.
You are probably going to get like a zillion responses to your post. Well here's mine: I have no quabble with the very very very rare JW who only benefits from being a JW and does not experience any harm. I believe there may be a few of them, ppl who are barely active in the org and lead a balanced life. A very few. The rest, like me, are deeply scarred emotionally by their experience and it takes a lot of emotional support and hard work to clear our minds and get our lives back on track. It is those ppl that I seek to assist.
But the main thrust of my JW-related activities is helping prevent normal ppl from getting involved in the first place.
(If you don't believe ppl are deeply harmed by the org, stick around. You will hear sickening stories of sexual abuse, emotional problems, etc. If you want to look back on my old posts you can read about my story with blood and emotional/physical abuse--none of which would have ever happened if I was never a JW.) my book
PS--Most of us do not "swear and lead immoral lives". The idea that ppl quit the org just so they can do "immoral things" is false propaganda.
Shazard

My 2 cents... I am not JW and never been and will never bee as far as it depends on me. But I have relatives involved ij JW and study WT teachings. I am christian and believe in Lord Jesus Christ, but as people allready sayed... you don't need to agree to everybodys point of view, and whenever I do not agree or anybody else does not agrees we still can be friends... that is what so cool about this site and similar. I can hang out with atheist and we may be do not have agreement about God or some religion stuff, but we still can have beer togeather, we can build a house togeather, we can help somebody sick out there, we can give food to somebody in hunger, we can still be loyal to our country who protects us, we can still do our job and enjoy gifts life brings... I am not bound to hate somebody who does not hates me. And even more... I am not boud to hate anybody atall.. If I hate somebody it is ON ME, I am hurting myself not somebody else and there is consequencies even in atheistic world for hatered and non-love!

Many Questions

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