Many Questions

by urstruly 99 Replies latest jw experiences

urstruly

Thanks rebel8 for your input. My answer to mollestation is not based on solely one experience, that was a personal experience because a family member was involved and I know the details, but as a health care provider you see many cases some of these are JW's after speaking with the patient and a social worker and you dig in further they do tell us about going to their "leaders" for help and what was done, of course we still have to do our part regardless. Anyhow, I'll read the article I haven't read any of their literature for some time I'll take a look at it.
Thanks
BlackSwan of Memphis

I am so, so sorry urs.
I think our posts keep showing up at the same time, and I got off track.
Rebel8 sounds alot like me. I got baptized when I was 14. Way too young to make that decision. It's like marriage.
Would you let your 14 year old get married? 16?
You know, had I known then, what I know now, no, I would not have gotten baptized. Because I ended up losing so many people that I love. I try to not let it get to me, but truthfully...
When you're raised as one, especially, it can be a very difficult thing to decide not to be a witness any longer.
(((sorry for the misunderstanding)))
meagan
rebel8

Hi again urstruly! I can relate to your experience. I used to be a social worker and personally witnessed an elder coercing his daughter not to tell anyone he had molested her, even threatening her with DFing. He said he was still in good standing because he had repented. He said if his daughter warned any parents in the cong to keep him away, he would have her DFd. He also did a bunch of really really horrible things to mess with her mind and emotional well-being.
Don't worry--the blood misrepresentation article is written by an attorney, not the WTS. It is amazing to see how many times they lied about the medical risks of the no blood rule. Sinister really.
sf

blah, blah, blah
Same bat channel.
sKally
blindersoff

What does being free to you all mean? Being able to swear and live inmoral life?

I don't do either.
B
jwfacts

There are many religions that could have saved your mother from her predicament. There are many religions that have good moral God fearing people. You can be grateful that the WTS saved your family, but you need to realise that every religion is filled with stories like yours. No one is denying that the WTS has greatly helped people.
However most people on this site have had their lives affected for the worse. To grow believing the lie that you will never die and that you are the only religion with righteous people has many damaging long term effects.
It can be likened to going to a doctor and being cured of an illness. If the Doctor dishonestly convinces you that having sex with him is part of the cure can you say that the visit was worth it? If he prevented you dieing maybe, but it still does not justify what basically amounts to rape, nor does it mean another doctor could not have saved you without taking advantage of you. By being dishonest to their members the WTS is abusing a position of power, and this is no different than rape.
Another aspect of the WTS is to control people by fear and guilt (fear of armageddon, fear of being disfellowshiped, fear of how bad the world is, guilt that they are never doing enough.) This does not mean they do not provide good as well. But again this too is an abuse of power. A father may feed his children, which can not be denied as being beneficial for the child. But it does not excuse him mentally and emotionally abusing them.
TallTexan

Welcome to the forum. I know some of these points have been addressed, but I can't keep my mouth shut either. As a 30-year JW (ex), let me give you my $0.02.
I just don't know what could have happened with a mother in to drugs an alcoholic dad and many many other things going on.

Glad you had a good experience. However, JW's want to act like they are the only way people can change their life. AA has caused many hundreds of times the number of people to clean up their lives than the WT ever will. Similarly, I know people who have been 'saved' into mainstream churches that have likewise made wholesale changes in their lives. Good for your family, but you don't have to join a destructive cult to make positive changes in your life.
but it sounds like some of you are just upset for being "punished", if you knew the consequences why get into it in the first place? And if you weren't happy being there either in anyhow, why be upset now because you were DF and even appealing?

Number one, it is not a religions place to 'punish' anyone - that's God's place. Df'ing is supposed to be a method to keep the cong clean, but it is used for exactly what you stated - unbiblical punishment. Many, like me, were too young to understand the realities of life when we were baptized. I didn't choose this life - it was chosen for me. By the time I was old enough to make an 'informed' decision, I had been so indoctrinated that I thought it was the only way to salvation. Most people that study are NOT informed about the df'ing policy until it's too late. People don't want to be df'd, not because they think it's the truth, but because they don't want to be cut off from their family. BTW, 'shunning' is a classic 'cult' technique.
Also, I see many harsh comments about JW's themselves and some JW's responding rudely, but how do you really know that it is one of them and not someone else passing as one just making them look worse?

Why would the be any different on the boards then they are in real life? Most JW's are rudely defensive of their beliefs and tactless beyond belief.
All religions have there skeletons and all have there rules to abide by so what makes the JW's so special?

JW's present themselves as infallible to the point of not even believing it's possible for the GB to be deceptive or have interest counter-productive to the average member. Remember, absolute power corrupts absolutely. When called on a 'lie', such as the UN, they continue to lie. If they would admit their mistakes, then perhaps I would not be so angry. But they don't. They make life-changing decisions cloaked in 'new light' without disclosing the real reasons behind the change.
Besides who are we to judge?

Who are JW's to judge? Yet they do. By their unbiblical df'ing policy they judge and publicly humiliate their members who don't have a clue as to the true 'judicial' nature of the committee meetings, which are a joke. They judge everyone around them as unworthy of life if they don't accept a crappy 30-second magazine presentation. Please!
What does being free to you all mean? Being able to swear and live inmoral life? Like I mentioned before, I don't agree with many of their beliefs I do however admire the high moral standards which SOME of them really do try to live by, and even though I'm not one of them I live by those morals thought to me and I can assure you I believe I've "saved" myself from so much hardship. Believe me I should know, I work at gynecology clinic where you see 13yr old girls getting pregnant, I've seen a 14yr old girl who turned out to be positive with HIV, 20yr old who already has had 5 abortions, boys and girls with gonorrhea and chlamydia. Is that what being free is all about?
Please, please tell me you're joking. There is no proof that the JW community is any less immoral than the rest of the world. It's just all done in secret. Growing up as a JW, I saw all the hypocrisy and the double lives led by 90% of JW youths. There is rampant wrongdoing by many members of the congregation that is swept under the rug because of who they are. I know - I've seen it on countless occasions. JW's get AIDs, get pregnant, get abortions, use drugs, swear, smoke - you name it. Please get off your high-horse and look at the reality of the situation. And why do JW's perpetuate the myth that people only leave to lead wicked immoral lives? That is simply propaganda, reminiscent of the Communist propaganda about the West during the Cold War. It's a bald-faced lie meant to discredit the thoughts of ANYONE who pulls away from the org.
but there are some people in there that are honest and true to their beliefs regardless of what they are based on.

True, but that's not good enough for JW's. They don't allow others to be happy with their beliefs regardless of their sincerity. They believe that all 'sincere' persons of Christendom will perish just as the wicked.
About child mollestation in the org. I don't think there's any org. that's free of these cases.

True. The problem with the JW's is not simply that things occur within the org that doesn't occur elsewhere. It's that they act like it doesn't happen, that they are perfect, while they rail against other religions and organizations in their magazines for these things going on. They talk about the Catholic church and the rampant pedophila, act like it doesn't happen in their ranks, and df those who try to bring about a change in policy to protect the victims. They talk about other organizations being in bed with the UN, when they were also.
It is their deception and hypocrisy regarding issues that destroy lives and family that open them up to the efforts we put at getting people out. Everyone in a cult thinks they're happy until they are outside and realize how destructive that kind of control truly is.
AuldSoul

Alejandra,
Pleased to meet you. My name is Brandon. I think you are confusing the choices of SOME who leave with the choices of MOST who leave, when it comes to our view of freedom.
Do I feel free to swear? Sure, why shouldn't I. Will I exercise that freedom? Yes, on occasion. Does it characterize my speech? No.
I am also seeing that you don't understand the power of coersive force that can be applied through threat of alienation from friends and family. It is a threat of an invisible wound that people who have never subjected themselves wholly to a manipulative, high-control organization can never fully understand. Let me give you an example:
I had serious doubts about whether the JW doctrines were based on the Bible. I asked, and pleaded, for Scriptural answers and got none. The repeated mantra was, "Wait on Jehovah. Just make sure that while you are waiting you are not forsaking gathering together."
Well, here is the letter my BOE accepted as a disassociation letter:
I wanted them to just let me walk away, they refused. At this point, if I am ever going to get to speak to my extended family again I have to bring down the organization.
This organization destroys families, just like any other cult. It controls through threat of undesirable consequence, just like any other cult. It shamelessly self-promotes and glories in its own achievements, just like any other cult. It sucks up incredible amounts of time, energy, and money from its adherents, just like any other cult. It expects its adherents to sacrifice their life for its dogma, just like...most other cults.
It teaches that its doctrine is fallible—unlike ANY other cult (that I know of). But this teaching means that they expect strict adherence to admittedly fallible dogma. It is actually a masterstroke of manipulation. It encourages cognitive dissonance to take root much sooner. Most Witnesses do not exercise free-will. Of those who do, many feel guilty for doing so.
I hope this helps you understand somewhat.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul
montana96

Hello urstruly and welcome to the board.Im glad you can still have a good family life and obviously your parents seem very balanced and a happy one.
The reason why this site is needed and used frequently is because many have been bought up as a jws from birth or young children and when they have decided to leave it has been a painful one.The only people that can understand what you are going through are on this site. I have nice new friends I have met since leaving and they wouldnt have a clue how it feels to leave, why you dont have any friends from the religion that knew you all your life, and the emotions you go through.
My husband and I have good jobs a lovely home and raise our kids well. I thought only jws live like this because we are told the world is such a mess and I work in the medical field too and have seen some heartbreaks! But many of our new friends have good jobs nice children good morals, so where do they get these? From having good family upbringings and decent morals and knowing right and wrong.Believe me we have met our share of bad people both in out out of jws.
We still have contact with 2 of our jw friends the rest we dont see anymore and Im not complaining because when you leave you know the consequences of your actions. Its just a pity that JWs cant accept that we left because we no longer believed it to be the truth after much research,the gossip and lies told about us were horrendous to say the least. And we have been affected by the blood issue as well. My beloved father-in-law died a slow painful death after refusing treatment , and yes his decision. Its a shame he didnt have his accident now as the products he wasnt allowed to have back then he can have now, so maybe he would be alive today.
So everyone is faced with a choice, and should be allowed to express their views whether a person likes those views or not. We are all individuals and and from what Ive seen from all other religions many are controlling and everyone has their own rules and regulations, but JWs seem to be extreme in their views and enforcing them otherwise one wouldnt get disfellowshipped for questioning their religion would they.anyway all their best in your search for answers I hope you find them
Mercedes x
Saoirse
I've read so many horror stories, but my life wasn't like that at all,

You're lucky. My years as a JW were pure hell.
as a matter of fact, when they first knocked on our door and my mother accepted a study our life changed for ever, it was for the best in many ways. I don't agree with some of the things but honestly if it wasn't for that knock on our door I just don't know what could have happened with a mother in to drugs an alcoholic dad and many many other things going on.
It's wonderful that your parents are no longer into drugs and alcohol. But they didn't need the witnesses to help them with that. They could have joined any other church or a rehab program to get help with their problems.
I don't agree with there beliefs, but if it gives others hope why mess with that?
They are not giving them hope, they are telling them a lie. The WT claims to adhere to the bible yet they deny the essential doctrines of Christianity. They deny the deity of Christ, His physical resurrection, and salvation by grace. They change and alter texts in the bible and they take scriptures out of context.

I'm sorry for what some of you have gone through but it sounds like some of you are just upset for being "punished", if you knew the consequences why get into it in the first place?
I was raised that way, I had no choice. I am not disfellowshipped.
And if you weren't happy being there either in anyhow, why be upset now because you were DF and even appealing?
Many appeal because they want family relationships that are denied them because of the WT's twisted interpretation of the scriptures. The Bible never said to shun family members and it never said to shun people who point out a false teaching or a false prophet.
Also, if you all are happy of being free, why hide behind nicknames or false pictures?
Identity theft, stalkers, elders hiding in your bushes - there are numerous reasons why people don't disclose who they are.
The way I see it, (I don't remember exactly what scripture) but if I recall correctly God says "vengence is mine" so does he really need you all or this website to uncover what ever is wrong within the org.?

Definitions of vengeance
- The act of taking revenge (harming someone in retaliation for something harmful that they have done) especially in the next life
- harm or damage done to someone in retaliation for harm or damage
- Revenge or vengeance consists of retaliation against a person or group in response to perceived wrongdoing. Although many aspects of revenge resemble or echo the concept of making things equal, revenge usually has a more injurious than constructive goal. The vengeful wish to make the other side go through what they went through or make sure they'll never be able to do what they did again.
I don't understand why you think this discussion board is vengeful. This is a form of group therapy for many. Please explain what you mean.
If you all still believe in a God and his power, why don't you all leave it in his hands?

As a born-again Christian, I feel a personal responsibility to help my loved ones and other JWs know the truth about God. In the bible, believers didn't just stand by, twiddle their thumbs and wait for God to send thunderbolts from heaven. They took action and spoke out against wrongdoers.

Also, I see many harsh comments about JW's themselves and some JW's responding rudely
I have nothing against individual rank and file witnesses. I do have a problem with those in leadership positions. They are the ones who are responsible for teaching the lies.
but how do you really know that it is one of them and not someone else passing as one just making them look worse?
No one needs to impersonate JWs to make them look bad.
All religions have there skeletons and all have there rules to abide by so what makes the JW's so special? Mormons can't aren't supposed to drink coffee, Pentecostals aren't supposed to cut there hair, wear make-up, or jewelery are we going to condone them for their beliefs?
No one is perfect but if you continuously lie, break up families and permit pedophiles to hold leadership positions you should expect to be criticized. Mormons are criticized for their bizarre beliefs. All the Pentecostals I know wear makeup, fix their hair and wear lots of jewelry.
Besides who are we to judge?
Pointing out lies and false doctrine isn't judging.
What does being free to you all mean? Being able to swear and live inmoral life?
Freedom to me means being liberated from the lies I was taught and learning the truth about Christ. I try not to swear and I don't lead an immoral life. Your assumption that ex-JWs are immoral, vulgar people is extremely offensive to me. Most ex-JWs are good, caring, kind and wonderful people. I have seen more acts of kindness on this discussion board than I ever saw in all my years at the Kingdom hall.
Does God need our help to uncover the lies?
I'm sure God has his ways of dealing with this and he will.
How do know that God isn't using us to help people leave this cult? Psalms 94:16 Who will stand up for me against evildoers? Who will take his stand for me against those who do wickedness?
About child mollestation in the org. I don't think there's any org. that's free of these cases. As a matter of fact, I know for a fact that in my mothers congregation there was someone acused of sexual abuse, and the authorities where notified and he was deported! This was about 4 years ago. I was mollested as a child also, and I have to be honest the elders really helped me, my mother would be the one saying I was lying, she couldn't believe her own brother my uncle would do such a thing. But the elders had a talk with her, this one family actually opened the doors to their home so that I would be safe until my mom did something about it. (By the way, my uncle is not a JW he is a dovout catholic)
I am truly sorry that you were molested. But, I can tell you from personal experience that if it were a JW that molested you, it would probably have been handled much differently.

The problem isn't that a child was molested by a JW. The problem is that elders who knew about abuse were told not to report it to the police, that victim's families were told not to go to the police and that accused pedophiles were allowed to be elders in the congregation.

My church does background checks on anyone who has a leadership position or who works with children. Child abusers and pedophiles are not allowed to have any position in the church. Shouldn't the JW's, who claim to be God's sole channel of communication, do the same?

Many Questions

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