i have a question (page 7)

JosephMalik

Elderwho,

You would have an argument if something other than the human race for which this Word sacrificed himself was being discussed. The definition chosen must match the context given in this introduction by John.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

To what things other than human ones did our Lord give such power? You may not be able to understand this but perhaps someone else will. This is how such discussions go.

Joseph

Narkissos

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
To what things other than human ones did our Lord give such power?

That's hardly an argument: hosoi in v. 12, hoi in v. 13 are masculine, clearly referring to people, not "things".

Otoh panta, hen, ho in v. 3 are all neuter (with the characteristic agreement of the verb egeneto, singular with a neuter plural subject, cf. the famous ta zoa trekhei), whence "things". Humanity is explicitly introduced as a further focus in v. 4b with anthrôpôn (also v. 9). Only with pretty painful eisegesis can one read a limitation to "humans" into the "all" of v. 3.

ellderwho

Joseph,

You have clearly ignored the answers I gave to your questions. As well as my basis, stands on the same premise as yours. I simply highlighted parts of the Greek definitions that cancel out your interpetations.

In fact back up to verse 1 in the begining. Ask yourself when was that? Gen 1:26? Further you continue to ingnore the phrase "anything that was made" certanily is inclusive of all of what?

Why doesnt John use G442, anthro¯pinos ?

The definition chosen must match the context

See G442.

brandon_the many

All things underdiscussion which in this case is humanity and all its races. If you are trying to say that "all" means everything in this verse then where is your evidence? Everything or anything non-human is not being discussed by John in his gospel. After all the next verses which say

John 1 (New Living Translation)

1In the beginning the Word already existed. He was with God, and he was God. 2He was in the beginning with God. 3He created everything there is. Nothing exists that he didn't make. 4Life itself was in him, and this life gives light to everyone. 5The light shines through the darkness, and the darkness can never extinguish it.

(NKJV)

John 1

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men. 5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

(New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures)

John 1:1

1 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. 2 This one was in [the] beginning with God. 3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.

What has come into existence 4 by means of him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light is shining in the darkness, but the darkness has not overpowered it

the prospective that John is giving, is one of all things...meaning man , beast, plants..exc.. "all" ...after looking at 19 differnt versions of the Bible..(NWTS), not being one of them......it is obvious that all things are meaning all things....great and small....everything....not just humanity....now, the human aspect does come in on the 4th verse....which is going to be seprate from the beginning of the book....but when God created us...He created in His image...If you would like a better result for this Q&A..i will be more than happy to have this explained to me by some that would be more equiped..such as my Pastor, we will have to wait untill monday..unless any of you are of sort...cause this is beginning to become incerasingly heavy...peace

JosephMalik

the prospective that John is giving, is one of all things...meaning man , beast, plants..exc.. "all" ...after looking at 19 differnt versions of the Bible..(NWTS), not being one of them......it is obvious that all things are meaning all things....great and small....everything....not just humanity

Brandon.

Obviouse to who? If it is so obviouse then were are such plants, beast and everything else mentioned? Humanity alone is under discussion and it is for humanity alone that the Word became flesh. So stay in context with the texts. It is the prevailing doctrine of the trinity and not scripture that is producing the views you all express.

Joseph

JosephMalik

You have clearly ignored the answers I gave to your questions. As well as my basis, stands on the same premise as yours. I simply highlighted parts of the Greek definitions that cancel out your interpetations.

Elderwho,

You did not answer the questions as you say. The argument is not cancelled or resolved by highlighting out parts of a definition. The definition that applies to such all things is not some highlighted one but the one based upon the context of the text, the humanity under discussion for which the Word became flesh. It is the same for this text:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Again we have humans under discussion, higher powers to which we are to be under subjection not beasts or plants. Thrones, dominions, principalities and powers all represent human governments that Paul will contrast with the Church. Such governments were both invisible to the Colossians as in Rome and visible such as the local authorities, but all such things are human.

Joseph

ellderwho

Again we have humans under discussion, higher powers to which we are to be under subjection not beasts or plants. Thrones, dominions, principalities and powers all represent human governments that Paul will contrast with the Church. Such governments were both invisible to the Colossians as in Rome and visible such as the local authorities, but all such things are human.

Okay Joseph, you can impose this on the text, what does this do for you?

tetrapod.sapien

heh, another trippy thread!! thanks jwd!

TS

Deputy Dog

Yo Joe

Are the "things" in Rev 10:6 men too?

Rev 10:6

and took an oath {by} the One living into the ages of the ages [fig., forever and ever], who created heaven and the [things] in it, and the land and the [things] in it, and the sea and the [things] in it, that [there] will be time [fig., delay] no longer.

D Dog

ellderwho

Dog,

There [other] things.

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