by Lady Liberty 40 Replies latest jw friends
I sometimes take a different tack on this one; no matter if you start with 607 or 587, who was it that ever stated that the 7 gentile times start there? That too is a Watchtower assertion, as well as the idea that a year for a day would apply to the prophecy. The whole assertion is so full of holes that it gives the whole foundational teaching of the Watchtower a rattle that brings it down in my opinion. 1914 becomes an assertion and the whole WT eschatology crumbles under the weight.
Jeff
OK im a lazy b******d,
has anyone compiled this info as a printable (easy to understand) page?
I just want to get the idea so if it comes up i can make a few points about it.
I never fully got the grasp of the 607 calc.
I would just find going into indepth study about it mind numbingly boring. and Im a bit too busy at the mo'
has anyone compiled this info as a printable (easy to understand) page?
I'm working on it. It should be done within a week, I'm trying to cover all of it in a very simple, easy to understand format. I will post on here when it is done.
heretic wrote: has anyone compiled this info as a printable (easy to understand) page?
Someone did a famously simple layout a few years ago. I've seen it and will look for it now.
-Aude.
Here's a thread with some pertinent details: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/48311/1.ashx
I'm still looking for the 'famous' one, though.
-Aude.
I once had a discussion on this matter with an elder friend of mine. I have been able to be a little candid with him as I studied with him and he is one of the few that came up to me when I quit and asked me why. I have never approached him at all and don't bring it up unless he does, so I feel comfortable talking to him.
I told him that we need to look at this thing from a different angle. On one side we have all these knowlegable people saying it's 586-7. Now to these people, does it matter one way or another if it's 586-7 or 607? No, they have come to a conclusion based on evidence. They have no axe to grind. But how about the WTS? Do they have any reason that it has to be one date or another? Absolutely! The whole thing is hinged on 607. I am sure they know what would happen if they admitted that 607 was wrong. It's the mindest that Ray Franz had when compiling the info on it for the Aid book, he initally had to ignore the info he discovered and he spent the time discounting what he deep down knew was the truth. Or the mindest of Schroeder when he said that they had been developing this line of reason for so long they couldn't change it now.
My elder friend had to stop and think about that. We haven't talked since, but maybe he will bring it up again.
Found it!!
Alleymom's post from July 2003: 586/587 the K.I.S.S. Approach --- no VAT4956, Ptolemy, Josephus needed
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/55372/807441/post.ashx#807441
I hope this helps.
-Aude.
I've read allll the posts and everyone has their interesting story -- especially about the poisonous gas story.
Heretic, it's hard to understand I know. I wouldn't say I understand it 100% (especially with BC how time goes "backwards.") I know you should have faith and not sight, but (LOL) I just love the evidence of diaries and stones presented in Carl Jonson's book "Gentile Times Reconsidered."
It's interesting if you go by the true date, 587 BC, counting 2520 years to 1934 makes more sense! We are dealing with a lot more terrifying year because we are dealing with Adolf Hitler and I think this was when Adolf gained power around this time...! This "1934 year" is closer to when the United Nations was a formed as a war time alliance in 1942, international org in 1945. Wow! How much more significant is that!!! WW2 was a lot more devastating that WW1!!! Carl Jonson says in his book (Last Days -- When?) that WW1 was largely a European war!!! NOT A WORLD WAR!!! That's how we know the 607 BC date is so untrue!!!!
I know everyone is probably sick of this subject. But if we ever plan on helping others,our family and friends, see the truth, this will be one topic that won't go away. Because this is the foundation for EVERYTHING else! In the end.. he said..like they ALL do, " What does it really matter??
I agree. Without the 607 BCE date, the Governing Body loses their so-called 'biblical' authority and we can't have that now can we?
Beautifulisfree said: When I told my sister about it she said it didn't matter because the religion wasn't based on 1914!
What's you're sister's phone number? I've got some swamp land in Florida to sell her.
AK-Jeff said: who was it that ever stated that the 7 gentile times start there? That too is a Watchtower assertion, as well as the idea that a year for a day would apply to the prophecy.
I'm not sure.......I figure it was either Russell or Rutherford who came up with that hum-dinger........and as you pointed out, it's totally bogus anyway, because the "7 times" that passed, was simply referring to the 7 years that Nebuchadnezzar went mental and ate grass. That's what de bible says:
(Daniel 4:16) 16 Let its heart be changed from that of mankind, and let the heart of a beast be given to it, and let seven times pass over it.
According to the WTS own publication:
*** w78 6/15 p. 12 Human Governments Crushed by God’s Kingdom "...Jehovah humbled this haughty ruler by letting a mental sickness come on him. For seven years Nebuchadnezzar imagined that he was a bull, going about eating grass."
There's absolutely NOTHING to indicate that these 'seven times' were anything but those seven years.
Found it!!
Alleymom's post from July 2003: 586/587 the K.I.S.S. Approach --- no VAT4956, Ptolemy, Josephus needed
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/55372/807441/post.ashx#807441
I hope this helps.
-Aude.
Yes!! Thank you so.. much for finding that!! We have used this and have been extreemly sucessful in talking with the elders with this chart! THANK YOU ALLEY MOM!!! My sister made a simple version from this too to explasin it to her husband. I will try and find it for you.
Sincerely,
L.L.
