Another Elder bites the dust!!!!

by Lady Liberty 40 Replies latest jw friends

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  Lady Liberty

  oh and lady liberty could i have the references for societies literature that you used for the kings dates e.t.c

  it will help when i resume play Kw13, Here is a formula my sister used to help her husband get it. She had posted it a while ago. Please keep in mind while reviewing this that adding years is actually going back in time. Also keep in mind that I am agreeing with the years of reign with the society not the years. Be open minded when you look at this and you too can see how 586/587 comes about. 539 =Fall of Babylon (history and society both agree=insight book volume one under Babylon) + 17 =Nabonidus years of reign (society agree=insight book volume two under Nabonidus) 556 =Labashi-Marduk reigned 9 months (society agree=01/01/65 watchtower) + 4 =Neriglissar years of reign (society agree=01/01/65 watchtower) 560 + 2 =Evil Merodach years of reign (society agree=01/01/65 watchtower) 562 + 43 =Nebuchadnezzar years of reign (society agree=insight book volume two under Nebuchadnezzar ) 605 + 21 =Nabopolassar years of reign (society agree=02/02/69 watchtower) 626 According to the math Nebuchadnezzar began rule in 605 and reigned 43 years till 562. Now we know Nebuchadnezzar took over Jerusalem in his 18/19 year. So take 605 and subtract 18/19 years and you get 586/587 I hope this helped some of you I know it helped myself and my husband
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  Mrs.Congeniality

  Hello everyone, my sister is Lady Liberty and this is my experience. I have been told that the reason why the elder did not pray at all with us was because he was afraid we were apostate. I am very fortunate that I have alot of my family that has left the org. I cant imagine what most of you are going through doing this on your own. My husband and I planned on only talking about the 607 issue with this elder for maybe 20 min or so but it turned into 1 1/2 hrs. I went out and bought a recorder not realizing that the tiny tapes only have 45 min per side so we only got half of his visit on tape. After going over his reasoning on 607 which L.L. posted I went into my information ( I posted this explaination under bible research and study articles, page 241 7th post down under easy math for 586/587,) He didnt know how long Nebuchadnezzer reigned yet alone the names of all the kings. So after giving him my explaination he kept trying to go back to the 70 year issue that L.L. explained. After going over this he said he wanted the copy of the list I had made because he wanted to see where the society had got their info. He said you cant always take everything the society prints. I thought my husband was going to freak out. He sat up in his chair and said " You mean to tell me that for 40 years all the publications we have always recieved from the FDS are not totally acurate?" the elder replied"Of course not they are imperfect men also" I even told the elder to please give us a minute because we needed to take in what he was actually saying to us. Since I had him on tape and alone I decided to go over more topics. Child Molestation was one of them. He mentioned how even if one admitted to molesting someone else they would not necessarily have to get DF for it. It depended on the person committing the crime. This really upset me. So I asked him if the elders had to take it to the authorities if someone confessed this. His answer was NO. They encourage the person committing this act to turn themselves in. Yeah Right like that would happen. Then we got on the subject of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. He mentioned that they are not part of the FDS. My husband said "I always thought they were,so if I went to an assembly and got on the stage and asked everyone to raise their hand if they thought the FDS and the WBTS were thought as one together I bet at least 80% would raise their hand" the elder said "Im sure your right but I would not be one of them" he mentioned "you know how at every meeting to the point of nausea that they mention DO PERSONAL STUDY-if ones would just do that they would know this." Then apostate came into picture. He knows that my parents stopped going to meetings a few years ago and asked me the ? "It was your parents that quit going to meetings a few years ago right?(my parents left the org. 4-5 years ago never DF or Disassociated) I said "yes" he said"What are the reasons why?" I told him we are not here to talk about them and it is no ones business but theirs." He back right down. then told me they are boarder line apostate. He doesnt even know their issues they live 400 miles away. I said why because they have ?'s. His reasoning was because they are no longer associationg with the org. I said I have never read that in the bible would he please show me. He said its right here in the insight book. I said I would like to see it from the bible. He looked up apostate in the insight book and started reading the first few sentences. I said I did not want to get into it now but I will check it out later. He told me there were scriptures through out the insight book under apostate that I could look up. I told him I would but a person can not just read one scripture but the context around the scripture because when you do that a scriptures meaning can totally change. He agreed with me. Anyway he mentioned he was giving the memorial talk and he would love to see us there. I told him we were going to observe just not at our hall. So the last thing he said was "Really guys what does it really matter?" I put my face in my hands and my husband stood up and said "Thanks for coming we would like to end this conversation now." Im pretty sure we will get the ax.Thanks for listening to my story and I hope this will help some realize that what they are doing is not wrong. Like the bible says "Make sure of all things and hold to what is fine"

  Agape
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  Lady Liberty

  Thanks sis,

  I know it took alot to post the rest, but I'm glad you did.

  Love ya,

  L.L.
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  Lady Liberty

  P.S. Look, Look, I'm a Junior Member Now!! Whoo Hoo!!!

  L.L.
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  freedomlover

  so cool! sisters posting together! you are so lucky to have eachother and your family. Your family really should write a book together. I would be a very interesting read IMO!
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  Lady Liberty

  so cool! sisters posting together! you are so lucky to have eachother and your family. Your family really should write a book together. I would be a very interesting read IMO! Thank you Freedomlover! Our family didn't always see eye to eye on these issues. But in time we came around! I was a hard nut to crack! My Mom and Dad would just say." We just trained her TOO well!" I was scared to death my parents had turned apostate! I remember telling my sister, who was still in, " Don't listen to anything they try to tell you! THIS is the TRUTH!!" So when I began to question things, my sister knew there must be something really to this whole thing. It freaked her out! But she listened, and we began our journey out together with our husbands. I think the key there, was to share in the begining, what we were finding with each other. Then it we didn't feel like we were on two different playing feilds. Anyway...to all of you out there who have family and friends who you don't see eye to eye,YET ..... DON'T GIVE UP!!!! They are scared to listen to you! BUT... even though they may shut you off, they may be haunted by things you have already told them. If I can be cracked...anyone can!! Your Friend,
  Lady Liberty
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  Mrs.Congeniality

  It is great to have family on the same page. Two of my very closest friends have also chosen to leave the org. because I chose to share the info I have researched. All because of my parents deciding to look into things My sister, her husband and daughter are no longer in the org. Myself,my husband and three daughters are no longer part of the org. the two sisters I shared info with along with their husbands and children are no longer in the org. A total of 19 people have left the org. 10 from my hall. I plan on taking as many with me when I go down as I can. Depending on the person decide what info that you think might interst them. For my husband and I it was not the 607 issue because we didnt understand nor care to. What started us was the scripture at John 20:25 when Thomas was wanting to know if it really was Jesus. "Consequently the other disciples would say to him: "We have seen the Lord!" But he said to them: "Unless I see in his hands the print of the nails and stick my finger into the print of the nails and stick my hand into his side, I will certainly not believe." How could they say Jesus died on a stake like in the bible story book shows. He has one stake not more than one. One of the sisters that left the org. asked and elder that ? his response was that Jesus was a big man and only one nail could not hold him up. He also said the Romans were not wasteful people so they would not have used a cross because it would have taken two pieces of wood. Its amazing what answers the elders will come up with when you put them on the spot.

  agape
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  moggy lover

  Unfortunately, KW13, there is no one place in the society's literature where you will find the information you are looking for. It takes a bit of searching. Here's what I found:

  1 The "Babylon the Great has Fallen" book has a chart on pg 183 showing the lineage of the Babylonian kings. The chart shows Nabopolassar as the father of Nebuchadnezzar, who in turn was suceeded by his son-in-law Amel Marduk, who in turn was suceeded by another son-in-law, Neriglissar, who was in turn was suceeded by Labashi Marduk, and finally he himself was suceeded by Nabonidus. From this one source we know that the WTS accepts the fact that the Neo-Babylonian Dynasty consisted of exactly 6 kings. No more, no less.

  The book itself does not give the length of the reigns of these kings [naturally, because if you counted the years, you would find it short by 19 years of WTS chronology.]

  2 So to establish the lengths of the kings, you have to go elsewhere in WTS publications:

  A: "Aid" book pg 1212, acknowledges that Nebuchadnezzar ruled for 43 years

  B: "Babylon The Great Has Fallen" pg 184 acknowledges that Amel Marduk [called by his Anglicized name Evil Merodach] ruled for 2 years

  C: Same reference acknowledges that Neriglissar ruled 4 years [ie BTGHF pg 184]

  D Again the same reference acknowledges Labashi Marduk ruled for "about 9 months" [BTGHF pg 184]

  E "Aid" book again acknowledges that Nabonidus ruled for 17 years ending in 539 BC [ Aid pg 1195]

  Adding them up from the 19th year of Nebuchadnezzar in 607 BC [as WTS presents it] will leave you short by exactly 19 years leading up to 539 BC!!

  Hope this helps

  Cheers
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  Dismembered

  Greetings Lady Liberty

  " Well, they are just imperfect men."

  Isn't it incredible. They continue to use the same old lines they've been using for years. It's the biggest cop out too, especially when you back them into a corner as you've astutely done.

  Another one of thier famous lines, which used to frustrate me to no end, was, whenever you'd ask about information regarding why "this one" or "that one" might have gotten Df'd or reproved. Or if all of a sudden ones would move to the neighboring congregation yet still live in our territory. Their reply was always something "Remember we as elders have, and know all the details". So we are just supposed to shut up and be satisfied with that.

  Anyway I admire your post. Keep it up.

  Dismembered
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  Mary

  Mrs. Congeniality, your story, while sounding very familiar, is still in some respects, shocking. This elder was not able to refute anything you said, tells you that the WTS and the F&DS are not the same thing and that you can't automatically believe everything that's in the Society's literature, yet your parents are "borderline apostates" because they asked questions to which they have no answer for? Uh huh. This scenario seems to be taking place more and more within the congregations. People are ASKING QUESTIONS that the elders have no answer for and it's freaking them out. So of course, in true Christ-like fashion, they deal with it the only way they know how: disfellowship people for asking questions apostacy.

  his response was that Jesus was a big man and only one nail could not hold him up.

  LMAO! And....he knows this-----how?? What an idiot.......

  He also said the Romans were not wasteful people so they would not have used a cross because it would have taken two pieces of wood.

  This is partly true. Because wood was not very plentiful at that time, the Romans had certain areas where they cruxified people and they had a very rough "frame" where poles of wood stood permanently in place that probably looked like an "m' or an "n". Jesus (and other condemned criminals), would have likely been carrying only the one piece of wood with them on their trek to Calvary. Then when they got to the spot where they were to die, the piece of wood they had carried was nailed to the frame which of course, would have formed a "T" or a t.

  The Romans had more than one way of cruxifying their victims. Some were given a seat on the cross to prolong the agony. With the seat in place, it could take days for them to die. Regardless of these technicalities, Jesus did not die on a single piece of wood. Asphyxiation is the usual cause of death for those who are crucified. Hanging forward by the arms strains the muscles that enable them to breath. Those muscles tire, grow weak, and finally give out altogether, causing the person's death. Had his arms both been nailed above his head like the Society's publications show, he would have had a heart attack in under an hour. This would certainly have not been to the liking of Rome, because the victim wouldn't suffer nearly long enough. Having their arms stretched out prolonged the agony.