You make me laugh and you break my heart.

by seven006 43 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  SixofNine

  Ah yes, there is that "TRUTH" word we all came to have such respect for in the borg.
• 

  Deacon

  Shelby.

  I guess it comes down to the simple fact that it is not your place or right to tell us anything.

  Once is ok, twice is enough.

  Your Lord has verbalised his message through you...now..we all heard it.

  Now please join in the discussions where and as you wish, but leave the preaching alone...

  even JWs are instructed to leave the doorpeacefully and without upsetting the householder if they decline to engage in conversation re: the message..

  with love
  deacs
• 

  Dogpatch

  One thing I have noted over the years is a phenomena that I call MALIGNANT NARCISSISM. I have a roommate who fits this description. Basically, it is someone who has a "game" or strategy that is overly offensive to many people around them for no other reason than, They just don't seem to ever get the point of why others can't stand their "game."

  People less narcissistic will usually take constructive criticism and adjust their "game" to be more effective in their communication with others. Those who do not, in spite of repeated hand signals from others, indicate that they are really not that interested in what others think about their conduct or behavior. Instead of adjustment for the sake of growth and community, they always look BACK UPON THEMSELVES narcisstically and display yet another drama making it look like they are "surprised" and "hurt."

  Perhaps many of you have not before been exposed to this phenomena. It, from my experience, is very common in the North American fundamentalist sects of our day and age, especially among the more Pentecostal varieties. I know, I used to be a Foursquare pastor (very similar to Assembly of God). Typically its roots are a poor childhood steeped in guilt and fear of losing out on God's favor. The person then strives to obtain the superego of "Christ" by denying themselves, and acting as if they have the mind of Christ. Yet their "mind of Christ" differs from others who realize that having the mind of Christ does not mean acting out their narcissism. In my opinion, people of this sort are rarely helped, as they are nearly impervious to change. Once they realize they have a serious problem, they can be helped by a therapist, preferrably a Christian one who can teach them balance. Until then, not much seems to change. Just my two cents from experience.
• 

  lauralisa

  Dear Dave and others,

  This is too weird... after reading in another thread about what the "Get a life, ten things...." post that joelbear started was actually about, I spent about two hours reading every single person's post. I had avoided looking at it bc for some reason I thought it was a flaming thing ("get a life" sometimes means "you're a dope" or whatever...)

  I was so filled with delight, really, getting to know some of the personalities (wink to waiting, wounded heart, and jw72 (?) sorry I'll go back and check if that's wrong). I am amazed at the creativity and intelligence and compassion and incredibly clever senses of humor..... Dave, your "ten things" just blew me away!!! You are so cool and your sardonic sense of humor just floored me.... I wish you weren't so far away geographically. I wish we could be buddies. The ten facts about Dan's lunch..... get that guy some shades, he's so bright....

  It was the perfect antidote, joelbear, to the current high-tension and obvious grief (uh, Dave said it well in his opening remarks) that most are experiencing of late.

  I've been reading this board sporatically for a few months, and more than a few times I've decided to cut and run, only to cool down and reevaluate. I've described this db to the man I love in euphoric terms at times, and have felt that it is a miracle that such a place exists. It is a place of extremes, and everything inbetween.

  When I first got up the nerve to post, there were of course responses all over the chart- in terms of others' replies. (Of course I wish everyone would love and accept everything I said all the time and give me great feedback. I also wish everyone would support and unconditionally love me all the time no matter what, come over and sit with me at a moment's notice no matter what time it is, feed me soup when I'm sick, and always say "HI LAURALISA!!!!! like some kind of freaky 12 step meeting....ahem.

  The more I read stuff here, the more I got to learn about the dynamics of the board, the idiosyncrasies and different styles of people's messages, (from all over the world... that is so cool). I regretted some of the things I had posted earlier. I had a trigger-reflex about any perceived rejection and can see now that I misinterpreted a bunch of stuff. I am able to enjoy and benefit more now from reading the contributions of the others bc I've lowered my expectations about what I will "get" here... and am trying to accept whatever comes my way for what it is.

  Like anyone else, when you move to a new place, it takes time to make friends and learn to trust others. Maybe I'm a dork for thinking anyone would even want to be my friend, but after leaving the borg, I am afraid of how alone I am. The superficial, paper-thin, conditional "friendships" I had at the hall, as shallow as they were, are gone. I have no family at all.... really! They are either dead or not safe to be in contact with. (I have two young sons, but have always had this policy against asking them to meet my emotional needs.... I am there to meet THEIR emotional needs, and it's a one way street that way) I do live with someone who is proving to be the most wonderful loving person in the world, and sometimes I think God sent him to me, or else I would have not had the whatever to keep on surviving. And I do have some new friendships that are wonderful, so the maudlin music crap can stop now.

  My love has helped me see a lot of things in a different way. He says allegorically of course: the number of people who walk in the light will always be able to overcome those who want to bring darkness. I've re-thought most of what the words of Jesus were about..... love and its healing restorative power existing in the present moment is what he taught.... life can be enjoyed, and its pain can be borne now, too. Life can begin already, not ONLY in the undetermined future (OCTOBER! NO! 1975! NO! WAIT! BY THE END OF THE CENTURY! WAIT!) but now, here, today, even. And even though there are weirdo politicians, abusers of power, evil warmongers, perverted butt-munches, that bitch at the grocery store... they don't rule the universe.

  There is a prevailing current of hope and fascinating scramble for meaning throughout this board. There are a few times where the hatred and animosity gets too thick, but then someone does something perfect like joelbear cutting through the crap with a "what's this have to do with homosexuality" remark, or Mommy revealing she's having a baby. Or Mommy Dark, describing the light out of her window during a rain.... that was priceless.......

  I was up all night and know the above is incoherent. I'm going on the first vacation I've taken in ten years on Saturday. I just know I'm going to be the next shark attack victim, though. I'll definitely write about it here if it happens, and some people will care, some will think I'm a neurotic freak, some asshole will call me a penguin (still don't know what the fuck that means), or maybe I'll be ignored, but I'll be back. Thank you Dave for putting words to the thoughts in my head, and making me laugh last night.

  What would Brian Boitono do?
• 

  seven006

  Scorpion,
  I understand exactly what you are saying. But the theme of this board is one that will always generate anger and pain. If one is to participate that should be understood and taken into consideration when they post. Everyone has a chance of getting kicked around whether your posts are good or bad. I'd just like to see some of the more reserved posters kick back a little sometimes. Not to the point of a long term grudge against someone else but just to leave a little boot mark on another persons mind the next time they think they have an easy mark.

  Stephanus,
  I know Prisca is a very kind and loving person and I know she does not completely deserve the comments she has received in the past few days. It is unfortunate that a lot of people seem to think they need to choose up sides on this board when any bit of mud slinging starts. What I was trying to get across to Prisca is it seems that when the mud starts flying all the kinder gentler people make an exit and that leaves the board filled with the ones who are handing out the unkind words. It's like a feeding frenzy and even some who would hesitate to join in and choose sides before this, start posting out of character and the board ends up in a murky cyber blood bath. I just wanted to make a point to her that she would be doing more of a good thing to stay and keep posting as she has then to leave. Some people perceive her to be a whiner because she points out some of the more negative thoughts posted on the board. They can see her as they wish, I do not see her as a whiner. I think if Mother Teresa was on this board she would have been told to eat shit and die a long time ago. There are a lot of angry people on this board and heated comments are inevitable. It's the nature of the main topic of this board. These people are not brain dead happy followers of the JW religion they are disgruntled ex members. It is only natural that some are angry and some are very very angry. I just think this board need's Prisca to stick around and contribute as someone that is not as angry as others and can give
  comments coming from a kinder perspective at times. Making a kind statement and speaking out against vulgar comments is a lot harder to do and be accepted then those who use the vulgar language. Like I said before, I cuss at times but it is generally used in a humorous manner with out the intent to harm or accuse.

  April,
  Welcome to the wonderful world of cult survival. Depression is just one of the many emotions that are a constant on this board. Stick around, it gets better and then it gets worse. It's kind of like real life around here. Once you get the real flavor of it you won't have to spit as much to begin to enjoy it. Sometimes you have to finnish your brussel sprouts to finally get your desert.

  Comf,
  Thank you for your response. You took it pretty much as I thought you would. No one likes to be called a liar, no one. There is one thing that will defuse this whole situation but I don't see it happening. That is for both you and Shelby to apologize to each other. I don't know how far back your dislike for each other goes but it really
  doesn't matter. My way of thinking about god and all the JW stuff is much like yours. I do not believe what Shelby says about her direct line to gods ear but I do respect her right to believe it herself. The first time she posted to me about something I said, I got a big kick out of it and had a good laugh. As much as I thought she was a bit
  eccentric I couldn't respond to her in a sarcastic manner because she was so damn nice in the way she did it. If this board would have existed eight or nine years ago when I was still full of a lot of anger I would have ignored her kind way of saying what she did and just tore her a new one. I am thankful I am pretty much over the majority of my anger with the JW's and I have just come to accept my lot in life and have tried to move on. You must not be at that point in your life yet and I completely understand. I do think the graphic you posted about Prisca was way out of line and very hurtful, but again, I understand where you might be coming from with your own adjustment level. Just please keep in mind that you are at your place within your journey and Prisca is in hers and Shelby is in hers.

  Tina,
  You little Italian meat ball, Thank you for your response. I agree that everything in the world is not all nicey nice, but some things are. I think nicey nice is a real problem with you "sometimes". I think you would like to kick nicey nice in the ass while you are tearing off the heads of Barbie dolls and shoving them up Barney the purple dinosaur's butt. I have been where you are and I have torn a few barbie doll heads off myself. "To me" and it "is" just from my personal perspective, you seem to have a particular problem with Prisca. Personally I think it's more of a chick thing than it is a exJW thing. I may be wrong and if I am I'm sorry if my comment upset you. When I said you seem to show hate maybe using the word "hate" was a little too harsh. Perhaps bitter is a better expletive. There is noting wrong with being bitter towards certain people or situations, it's all a part of growing. You are right in what you said about people learning from your posts, I have and I'm sure many others have. Your thoughts about cutting and running are good ones but I think you are missing one important point. Not everyone has learned the lessons in life that you have and they may not yet have the understanding that to stand up and fight is sometimes a better alternative to cutting and running. I have always been a fighter but once in a while I just say fuck it and I leave. It all depends on how important I feel a particular situation is and I try and see what is more important in regard to the big picture. Sometimes it's useless to keep fighting and sometimes it is not. I feel that some who have recently announced that they are leaving this board should stick around, but that's just where my head is at. They have their own reasons for doing what they are doing and without knowing every detail about what they may or may not be doing in their life right now it is hard to judge their actions based on that lack of knowledge. People tend to judge others more by where they are in their life than the person they are judging. They look at someone's actions and think about what they themselves would do as oppose to trying and understand where the other person is coming from. Cutting and running does not make you a weak person, sometimes it makes you a smart person. It all depends on the individual and the situation. I think a lot of people fail to realize that this is simply a discussion board. It is not anyone's home or place of business or church. In reality it could be only as important as any one of us make it to be. There are people who post here who I see as very intelligent and have a lot of insightful things to say. And there are others here that I think are very lonely people
  and they post for attention and acceptance whether it is negative or positive. There are a few who I think are totally out to lunch and should be locked up in a padded room. The first group I like to post to, the second group I post to once in a while, the third group I simply avoid. This is just a damn discussion board and I think a lot of
  people take it way to seriously. But that's just my opinion coming from my perspective which is influenced by where I am in my life right now. So quit picking on Prisca or I'm gonn'a tweak your damn nipples! Trust me, the next time I am in Chicago land I'll look you up, we could all go out for some nice Thai food.

  Shelby, Shelby, Shelby,
  You are, from where I stand definitely over reacting. I did not mean to hurt you by my words and I am very sorry if I did. All I wanted to point out is that "some" may find what you have to say and particularly the way you say it a bit objectionable. Yes, even vulgar by their standards. The first time you ever posted to me you started out by saying you had prayed to your god asking for an answer to what ever I had made a comment on. I did not ask you to do that and to try and bring me into your world with out asking was wrong. I did not ask you to pray, chant, meditate, or petition your god in any way in respect to something I said. I do understand it is "your way" and as I recall I posted a nice response to you and asked you not to do it again. If you read my post to you correctly you would have noticed that I said that your posts come across to "many" on this board as vulgar, not necessarily in the language you use but more in it's controversial content. If I were to post to you and say that I prayed to satan about you and his answer was this or that you would probably see that as very vulgar. I know it is hard for you to accept but many people on this board "hate" religion and having someone include them in any way in their own conception of god is offensive to them. Maybe you should have a little consideration about other people and at least "ask them" if you can do what you do before giving them your interpretation about what your conception of god has to say to them. I don't want anyone praying to mythical sprits on my behalf whether they are satan, allah, jehoover, or the wizard of OZ. That is all I was trying to say. If it offends you then maybe you can start to understand what I was trying to say about you offending others. I have said several times I do not know whether I believe in god or not. Having you assume that I do and having you pray for me is not acceptable to me. Just by saying things like "peace be with you" or "have a nice day" does not justify your
  assumptions and actions. I like the way you are usually kind in your words but kindness is not an open invitation to add me to your religion. I do think you are a nice person and that your intentions are generally good ones. But please, let others give you their own interpretation of what they see good to be before you start having
  conversations with your sprit about them. If I ever decide that I do believe in god and I think I need a direct line to give him some kind of message, you will be the first one I call. Until then respect mine and others thoughts and only talk to your spirits on their behalf if they ask. If you do not understand this then there is noting more I
  can say. Again, I am sorry that I upset you but have it in your heart to realize that you may have upset others. I in no way think Kent's post to you was appropriate but Ido understand where he is coming from just as I understand where you are coming from. If there was a little more understanding about where people are coming from on this board and if the responses were given with that understanding I think a lot of this animosity could be avoided.

  I will respond to the other posts tonight, now I need ot get back to work.

  dave
• 

  Tatiana

  Dave, thank you. I wasn't planning on going anywhere! Depression is part of my anatomy now. If it left I'd feel like someone chopped off my leg.

  Lauralisa.....omg, you said exactly what I've been thinking. I, too, read all the posts on "get a life". My eyes were burning when I finished. I actually left another board to come here. And lurked a lot at first. It is like moving to a new place. You don't always agree with all of your neighbors. But you live beside them just the same. I think I'll stay......

  April

  "Love never dies." Voivodul Vlad Draculea (from Bram Stoker's Dracula-1992)
• 

  Ballistics Ghost

  Shelby, sorry but I agree with seven. No harm or hate was meant in his post. He was just trying to tell you plainly and simply what you can APPEAR like to others.
  I think in your reply to him, you over estimate the number of ex-jws who want ANY God in their lives and even those who do, don't neccessarily want preaching to.
• 

  Billygoat

  Ew...hate to get into this discussion. But to go along with Dave's comment and Ballistic's Ghost's comment...

  I think it's great that Shelby is so happy with her life - just like I'm very happy with mine. I appreciate her constant compassion and kindness, which are the only qualities I've seen her show here. Those qualities I try to exude as well. But the difference I see is this:

  I don't push my beliefs and thoughts onto others on this board and expect them to believe as I do. I don't even expect them to respect my beliefs and thoughts. I'm accountable for my life and mine only. Nobody else's. If anyone's really interested they can ask me privately, but I am not going to push it onto anyone else before I've been invited. I do get that feeling from Shelby.

  Shelby, if I'm off-base with my comments, I apologize. That's just the feeling I get.

  Andi
• 

  Billygoat

  A post from Tina since she's at her limit for the day:

  Dave,you are wrong on both counts.(bitter and picking on your lil friend,you dont know the half of it,or yes you do,just 1/2) I hope you will revise the 2 lies about me you posted. And if it makes you feel good to play Dudley Doright,by all means do your thing dear. Im signing off on this lying nonsense from you now. Your perceptions are off base as you barely know me. Thanks and best wishes .ciao.Tina
• 

  AGuest

  Danny... dear one... may you have peace... and I 'hear' you. Honest, I do. BUT...

  How is that I can be accused of being offended... when I am not... yet not permitted to feel hurt... when I do? I was not offended Kent... OR by Dave's 'counsel'... but by yet another INACCURATE portrayal of me:

  If you are attacked for that, don't act surprised that you will get some of the comments you have received

  ME? Surprised? Can SOMEONE tell me at what point I expressed surprise? Offense? Chagrin? Anyone? ANY takers?

  How is it, please explain, that a grown man can make a post that offends OTHERS... and I get blamed... not only for his vulgar post... but for OTHERS being offended? How is that me... who 'knows nothing', 'hears nothing', 'controls NOTHING'... has this 'power'?

  You know what... nevermind. Apparently, I am supposed to apologize for some man I don't even know, who I have never had more than a few words exchange with, making an offensive post... about me and TO me... and for those who were offended. Not him... not them... but me.

  Okay... you know what? I apologize. I am sorry. I am SORRY that I caused Kent to post what he did... to the chagrin and detriment of others. I am SORRY that others were offended. I am SORRY that I, little old me... who 'knows nothing', 'hears nothing', and 'controls nothing'... apparently has SO much 'control'... that I can make a grown man and ocean and a continent away SO... whatever... that he loses all self-control, maligns me... and offends others. Yep, I did it. It was me.

  And, I apologize because, according to Dave, what Kent did... and the resultant fall-out... is what I "wanted". Yep. Most certainly. I 'provoked' him. Nevermind that I hadn't even exchanged a single WORD with him... on ANY subject of late... but... I did it. I caused the 'uproar'. Again.

  You know what, though? I have nothing but love for you people. And even now, I wish you nothing but peace. For those of you who receive my peace... so be it. For those of you who don't, please know that even now, my wish is still sincere. Even if it IS in my 'sugar-sappy-Jesus-loves-you-and-I'm-sorry-but-so-do-I-cause-that's-the-kind-of-person-I-REALLY-am..." kind of way.

  (Talk about wanting to have a 'cup' removed; yet, not as I will, Father, but as YOU will...)

  I am, because I can only be ME...

  Shelby Johnson... YOUR servant... a slave of Christ... to time indefinite... even if some of you wish me not to be... because that IS what I am.