Thank You Ray Franz. (page 4)

zev

Dear Mr. thewiz,

first off let me say, that against my better judgement, i am making a post to this board, even though i said i was staying away till after 10/01. i just want to acknowledge the fact that i've broke my word and felt it nessasary to come out of my recluse.

second, thewiz, is that although you choose frasier as your picture icon, i happen to know how much you resemble him, though, a bit shorter, if you ask me. and you didn't ask. but as always, i voiced my truely humble opinion.

third, ray franz's books are and were an eye opener. while i also cannot agree with EVERYTHING written in them, the basis of what he writes is indeed thought provoking {something new for all dubs to do} and revealing. i have read both books and am now reading the gentile times reconcidered. {just started it}. i agree with the three sides to every story. the truth being most important. only you, i, or anyone else making it a personal choice to study for himself and read and think and pray, can decide after concidering all facts, what truth really is.

fourth, the fact that the wtbts has omitted, and otherwise deceived as to fact, aka truth, being that THEY state that they are GODS channel, indeed casts doubt in my mind about what "truth" they are speaking. the documentation supplied in coc and isocf speak volumes.
they may satisfy me, and not another, but whats important, is that after many years of being in the truth, in fact almost all my life, like yourself...i have had to take a step back and ask my self, exactly, what is it i have believed all my life, without question?

have you asked yourself this question? have you done some research to validate what it is you belived?

if, you sweep a floor and "pick" up the dirt, when an inspection is made, finding the "dirt" is a difficult task.

if however you sweep the floor and sweep the dirt under the carpet, then lifting the corner of the carpet reveals the dirt.

the wtbts has done exactly that in my humble opinion. i should have had to struggle to find out things. all i did was lift a "corner" of the carpet and find dirt. gods organization should certainly be clean of such "dirt". it isn't.

therefore, i question.

and rightfully so.

-Zev
-August 8th, 2001 - The day the lambs ROARED

teejay

thewiz,

I agree with nearly every word of what you say relative to Ray. It's just that you could have picked a better forum if you wish it known that you are less than 100% in agreement with everything he has written.

That being said, there are few people I have more respect for. He was fooled when he was a dub, that's all, just like the rest of us, but when forced to face the REAL truth, he didn't run and hide from it and continue to preach the lie as too many do. I give him a lot of credit for that. As he was as a dub, so he is now: a man of honor. imo.

peace,
tj

wasasister

I regret the somewhat negative turn this thread has taken. I read all the posts carefully and sincerely did not see any "ass-kissing" going on. Perhaps that is in the eye of the beholder.

What Mr. Franz' books did for me was provide a key to unlock my Witness mind-set. I chose to use the key and I will always be grateful. Like many, I left the Org without fully understanding what I was leaving. There remained a tiny part of my mind that believed I might die at Armageddon. Reading his books forever freed me from that irrational fear and helped me to move on to my own belief system.

Maybe Randy or someone else who communicates with Ray will direct him to this site. It may please him to see so many expressions of gratitude. I thought about writing to him personally after I read both books, but never did. Therefore:

Thank you, Ray Franz for your courage and efforts on behalf of others.

Wasasister

Maximus

Wasasister,

Ray Franz won't be reading this site. Write him.

The mob here can turn on a dime, and often does. You can and will get attacked for raising an eyebrow --- that the reader can't even see!

Jim Penton has no stomach for the board either. I understand that fully.

No lectures in response, please.

Max

Celia

Wasasister, Ray has read this thread, at least the first page...
TheWiz, I don't understand what you saw or didn't see in CoC... Ray certainly seems to be a very decent, honest man. Compared to the creeps on the GB at the time he was there, he is a Saint. The silence of the WTSociety proves that all his documents and sources, dates, exemples are true.
His books have helped and will continue to help so many out of this cult, and that is what is important.

Mulan

I was going to print this whole thread and mail it to Ray, because he doesn't do internet, but now I can't do that. This would hurt his feelings terribly. One of our good friends, here in the Northwest, is in close communication with Ray. He told me that Ray only does email, and not internet at all. Maybe that has changed. He also tells us that Ray has deep concerns about his books having damaged people, and left them with no place to go. I wanted him to see how much his books have NOT done that, but have helped all of us to see the truth of things. That is how I view his books anyway.

I'm glad Celia knows of his seeing the first page, at least. Someone must have sent it to him.

Another of Ray's problems is that he gets so much email from people like all of us, and feels he has to answer all of them. And he does too, in a very personal way. They aren't form-letter emails.

However, my husband suggested that I post here, for those who have been happy with his books to write him an email and let him know how much it meant to you. He is quite aged now, and frail, and suffered a stroke not too long ago. There is no point in the malcontents sending him mean spirited emails, so I hope you don't do that.

. [email protected]

Marilyn (a.k.a. Mulan)

teejay

I thought about writing to him personally after I read both books, but never did. Therefore:

Thank you, Ray Franz for your courage and efforts on behalf of others.

I'm with you, waiting. I always meant to write a thank-you and a buddy and I even planned on a visit to GA to offer our thanks in person, but it never happened. So, if you're reading, Ray, thank you. I owe you, big time.

tj

Deacon

Guyz

I dont think you are seeing the reasons behind Wiz's post.

Why should he believe anything written anymore by an ex member of the GB?

His whole world has been shattered, his emotional and mental credulity has been evaporated by the longterm indoctrinated belief system that has now failed him.

It will take a while for him to settle.

Allow him his search, his honest comments and his feelings time to settle.

I cannot find it in me to be critical of his pain. And I dont believe Ray Franz would either..

no.. I think Ray would understand.

wasasister

I was going to print this whole thread and mail it to Ray, because he doesn't do internet, but now I can't do that. This would hurt his feelings terribly.

Mulan: why not edit the posts and then send them? I think many of us (myself primarily) feel a twinge of guilt that we never personally thanked the man for his efforts and the good he has done. I do not think it is dishonest to edit out comments which might harm an ailing individual.

Max: I certainly understand why Franz and Penton would not post here. It may also have to do with their not wanting to draw unnecessary attention to themselves, as some have accused them of being "apostate celebrities". The mere fact that they have published well known and well documented books does not make them "stars" in this or any other arena. Thanks for your comments.

Makena

In the past year, my wife and I have read both of Ray's books. I found them to be extremely well research, fair and honest. It certainly burst my "rosey - colored" glass view of the headquarters. That had already occurred on a local congregation level about 2 years previously, but I kept hanging in there believing that surely Brooklyn or Bethel was not like what I had experienced at the KH and within the elder body.
I applaud Ray, and hope that any proceeds from his books have made the twilight years of his a little more comfortable. He was an amazing writer, researcher while at Brooklyn - why not use that talent to give a needed perspective on a blind belief syster, and make a few dollars for a change. I am NOT saying that was his motive in writing - his motives are well said and summed up in the final chapters. I don't see a church, or TV ministry with his name on it -so he is "trying to draw off followers". Like many on this board, he seems to still have a few very well connected active JW's who provide inside information.
My family on my mother's side association with Russell began in the late 1800's, and my father's family started studying in 1914. I never met Ray personally, but have met other past and present GB members while attending Gilead graduations, visiting Bethel homes in many countries, and international assemblies. My father did his stint at Bethel in the late 1930's, and was a missionary for many years after attending Gilead in 1945. It's possible that Ray may remember him.
Maximus, you wrote that Ray would not usually not visit this site, but that one could write him. I would really like to do that. Any suggestions?

Thank You Ray Franz.

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