Thank You Ray Franz.

by Martini 63 Replies latest jw friends

  • VeniceIT
    VeniceIT

    .

  • teejay
    teejay

    Good evening, Larc. I've been meaning to tell you some things. I might as well now.

    You say that it bothers you that I think there are cliques on the board, that you "don't see a we-they status thing." You then promptly proceed to list, out loud, as it were -- naming names (including your own and that of your wife!) -- those that you consider "high credibility sources." Ironic.

    I'm leery of certain expressions here on JW.com because they are used so often that they have practically lost their meaning. One that comes to mind is "hypocrite." Another is "credibility." That's why I asked you what you meant when you said it.

    You consider Fred Hall and You Know at the poor end of the credibility scale and yourself, kent, and Norm at the high end. Cool. I have no problem with you thinking that, but if you don't mind, I reserve the right to consider whomever I wish "credible."

    I remember kent (jokingly?) suggesting that Emyrose come for a visit to the Norwegian woods to provide a target for him and his friends to go "hunting." He also (repeatedly) posted mean-spirited, denigrating cartoons depicting black people in less than positive ways.

    Norm, without ever engaging me even ONE TIME in one-on-one dialog, told me point blank that there was no hope for me, that I had no redeeming qualities. Ginny did the same, but only after she(?) called me a laughingstock for believing a lie she told.

    Tina recently started a thread about a wt article and when a poster asked for quotes, another poster had to oblige since she didn't know what the hell she was talking about. But dang, I'm not upset with her, seeings how she's the board's resident blonde, so... there you go. Besides, she is just about the MOST judgmental person here.

    I say, "If these are what Larc sees as "highly credible" people, fine." We, you and I, are working with different definitions of the phrase, that's all.

    Since you named names, I'll offer my opinion (in no particular order) of those you mentioned that I've "known" long enough to form a reasonable opinion about. Put it with 50 cents and you might be able to buy a cup of coffee:

    Imo, Randy has high cred... no, make that very high cred. He has probably helped more people than Ray F, if that's possible. If there were a heaven, he'd have money in the bank, imo.

    Waiting is nothing but high class, all the way. Life hasn't been easy for her, but she's been paying attention and has become very, very wise. Patio is following in her footsteps, as far as I can tell but has a ways to go.

    I love JT's genuine expressions and insights into life at the Big House. He needs to get with several others and write a book--seriously.

    Joel is very near to Waiting's level, imo.

    AlanF and I got off on the wrong foot (he misread me and I may have misread him), but I will say that if I had found his writings earlier in my journey of departure from the Society, I'd be far less antagonistic toward him. I would have found his latest thread, where he mimicked a '43 wt article, very thought provoking, chilling, if not downright plausible. As it is, based on where I am now, I found it... well, less than thought provoking, less than chilling, less than plausible, but that's me where I am now. He's a good writer, though, and I think his intentions are good. I just think his 'position' goes to his head sometimes, but I could be wrong about that.

    DannyBear and I are well on the way to becoming lifetime friends, so I'll spare you my biased opinion of him.

    All of these opinions, except the last, have been written in moist clay, but the clay is hardening. Making concrete judgments about people I have not met or spoken with personally, basing said opinion simply on the words they write, is something I hesitate to do (a practice I wish were more in vogue around here), but it's possible to get to know people even in this medium, if you give them time and they are honest. Well... even if they AREN'T honest, giving them time will allow one to sift out a lot of the nonsense.

    Teejay, you are in the middle of these extremes. When you start a thread on a serious subject with an in depth analysis, I will put you in the top category.

    You're very funny sometimes, Larc, and I mean that in the best way! My opinion of you rises quite high, then you say something like that and remind me that we're all nothing but measly flesh and blood! I don't know what you mean by "serious thread" but from MY perspective I've done that more than once but you didn't share my view, I noticed. What's serious to one is frivolous to another, I guess, and the world goes round and round.

    If by "serious" you mean "JW," "watchtower," "meetings," etc., don't hold your breath. I'd love to be up on the latest mags and mtgs and such, but the last time I went to a wt study with the family, I got so mad at the lies it told... well... I'd had enough. My wife gets her weekly quota of mags, new releases, KMs, etc, and I don't crack any of them. What AlanF and others do is for good purpose and I have no problem with it. It just ain't my bag.

    And as far as you putting me "in the top category," you aren't suggesting that I "reach out," are ya, Larc? People waaay more persuasive and waaay more relevant to me than you tried that for AT LEAST 20 years without success. You're going to have to try way harder, my man. You should know that about me by now, or have you not been paying attention?

    By the way, your good posts about what you learned from social psych. was very good. I wish you would do more of that.

    Interesting. I remember one person responding to that thread. I figured that kind of topic is of interest only to you and me. I have no problem with that. Why beat a dead horse?

    peace, Larc.
    tj

  • larc
    larc

    Brother Teejay,

    I agree with your assessment of the diferent posters. Perhaps, because of the content and effort that some have made over long periods of time, has caused me to over look some things, that I too find troublesome. Since people have been relatively civil lately, I hate to go any further on that subject.

    Your posts on what you had learned at college: I hope you continue posting things like that. Even though few responded, there were many who read it. I had a similiar situation when I had a discussion with Duns regarding Determinism. Few contributed but many people read it.

    Pete: I think you misread my words. The "trucken bozzo" is a late night AM radio talk show that I listen to at night in bed before I fall asleep. The content of the program appeals to truckers, but is of interest to many people, because of the uniqueness of the current issues he discusses.

    Pete, we-they versus subgroups: To me these are different concepts. We-they implies hostility of one group against another. I don't have that perspective here and I don't think the majority of the other contributors do either. There are different subgroups here, with different interests and different contributions, but that does not imply that there is hostility between these groups. For a more detailed discussion of my outlook, please look at the resurrected thread, "Why are you here?"

    I could say more, but I want to make sure this gets posted. My last version of this didn't make it for some reason.

  • GinnyTosken
    GinnyTosken

    Teejay,

    Norm, without ever engaging me even ONE TIME in one-on-one dialog, told me point blank that there was no hope for me, that I had no redeeming qualities. Ginny did the same, but only after she(?) called me a laughingstock for believing a lie she told.
    We discussed this at length in the "I Gave My Word" thread, Teejay:

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=9870&site=3

    You accused me there of saying that you had no redeeming qualities. I replied:

    Please read my statement again, Teejay. I carefully worded it because I have never known anyone without some redeeming qualities. I also understand that there are facets of your personality others may know and love that I may not have seen on this board. I said, “I . . . patiently wait to see these redeeming qualities, but plainly stated, based on what I've seen of you on this board, you disgust me.”
    You replied:

    Again, I'm sorry for misreading/misquoting your words. My mistake. I can see your point. After rechecking, there's miles of difference between what I thought you said and what you actually said. I thought you said that I had "no redeeming qualities," . . . Yes, I can see the difference. Please excuse my confusion.
    I also explained what you term my "lie" and why I consider you a laughingstock:

    I said, “ . . .you took it [my joke] quite literally. For those who have met me, you are quite a laughingstock, Teejay.” I am being quite candid and sincere. You did take my joke literally, and for those who have met me and know that I am very much a woman, it is funny that all this time you’ve been picturing me as a big mean hairy hoss. What makes it even more hilarious is that you persist and make a federal case out of it. Not even a photo could convince you. Ginny is the evil mistress of deception.
    You replied:

    I'm sorry that I mistook your joke as a truth instead of the joke it was. My mistake.
    Even after all of this, you still persist with the "she(?)" stuff.

    Is your memory so short, or are you deliberately trying to distort the truth? It is exactly this sort of behavior that disgusts me.

    Ginny

    [Edited to add a more complete quote about "redeeming qualities."]

  • Norm
    Norm

    TheOldHippie

    You said:

    So KENT and NORM are HIGH-credibility sources? Wow! That's something!
    Yes, isn't it fantastic? After all these years and you still haven't got it?

    Norm.

  • Tina
    Tina

    tj go fuck yourself.
    I simply couldn't find the mag to provide the qoutes. You think whatever you want. You're post shows just who is the judgemental idiot. You are true to form yanno. I knew it was just a matter of time before you started insulting and trouble-making. Thanks for being consistent. Here you go,creating another conflict by creating an 'us vs. them' then proceed to judge a slew of posters. Your troublemaking strategies are not even subtle. Keep your 'blonde' labels. Try working on yourself instead of pointing your finger at other people(which is about all you do here).You're obviously reading my stuff lol,thank you.Now get off my leg.If bullshit were bricks,you'd live in a castle.

    Yes Ginny he's at it again. He'll take info from a post and distort it to fit his trouble-making agenda. That's all he ever does. I mean look what he's bringing up again in order to facilitate emotional knee-jerk reactions.
    This is the only couple minutes of my time he's getting. he's simply trying to manipulate and create conflict AGAIN. He needs help STAT. luv ya,T

  • thewiz
    thewiz

    I know/about who Mr. Randy Watters is, I try to use sarcasm, satire, hyberbole, rhetoric, etc. where ever I can. I was just trying to make a point.

    first it's the WTBS trying to save our souls, and for some, I guess it's now Mr. Randy Watters, Mr. Ray Franz, or whatever other big names can be dropped, that are trying to save our souls.

    I know Mr. Franz, isn't looking for a following..., per se.

    It was just my Modest Proposal...

  • teejay
    teejay

    Ginny,

    I guess you didn't see my non-answer as a general disinterest in rehashing a very tired, very well-worn, very old debate. To keep Farkel from accusing ME from hijacking another of his threads--even though it was you who cut and pasted your post from this thread to his--I will say this: in mentioning what you said in the "I Gave My Word" thread, I was only making a point to Larc. I had a very good reason for doing so. I had made a comment to thewiz, Larc commented on the opinion I had voiced, I elaborated. He may not have agreed with me, but I think Larc understood. Here, on this thread, that is all that matters.

    Give it a rest, Ginny. Please. Our respective opinions of each other have not changed.

    tj

  • GinnyTosken
    GinnyTosken

    Teejay,

    I replied in a new thread, "To Teejay."

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=10869&site=3

    Ginny

  • bigboi
    bigboi
    first it's the WTBS trying to save our souls, and for some, I guess it's now Mr. Randy Watters, Mr. Ray Franz, or whatever other big names can be dropped, that are trying to save our souls.

    What you said is a very wise observation, thewiz. BTW, nice to meet you. There comes a time in our journey out the WTS that we may need a helping hand and do some adjusting. However, to fall into the trap of relying on any man or group of men again to validate us or our reason for being out of the tower, is just evidence that mentally we never left it in the first place. Just a thought.

    ONE.....

    bigboi

    "life's a bitch a with a g-string and a twelve pack of Busch."

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