ahem. What I meant to say was, I was not aware that circumcision was a *modern day* Jehovah's Witness issue at all. It certainly was not for me. Also, I don't think it is routinely practiced in England like was hinted in the other thread happens or happened in the US.
Why did Jews cut their willies?!!
by Spectrum 43 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Narkissos
According to most medical experts, the best time for circumcision is never
LOL.
In the Levitical arrangement, the eighth day has nothing to do with health. It is simply the first "clean" day after one week of ceremonial uncleanness (of the mother, but implicitly bearing on the child), cf. Leviticus 21:2f.
If a woman conceives and bears a male child, she shall be ceremonially unclean seven days; as at the time of her menstruation, she shall be unclean. On the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.
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LDH
I guess I'm still amazed that there are people who actually think that an uncircumcised penis is inherently dirty. If you don't wash it, of course it's dirty. What happens to your ass if you don't wash *that?*
Any body part that is not cleaned properly and regularly gets 'dirty.' DUH.
The female clitoris also has a 'foreskin' or 'hood' over it; you don't see people routinely circumcising their daughters because it might get 'dirty' under the hood.
And please don't confuse Female Circumcision with Female Mutilation, or I will just have to laugh at your ignorance.
90% of the world does not get circumcised; some of us have managed to hang on to this old Jewish Tradition for some odd reason.
In 1999 the American Academy of Pediatrics said boys should NOT routinely be circumcised.
Lisa
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Gamaliel
Narkissos,
Good point about the time of un-cleanness mentioned in Lev 21. That's what I meant when I said: "(But there are other religious-based hints in the Mosaic law that made day 8 seem appropriate...)"
But still, that doesn't explain why they got it done so early when others went for a puberty-related rite of passage. Spectrum mentioned that trial and error could have led them to find the eighth day as optimum if it were really based on blood-clotting, but the combined levels of all bloodclotting agents are likely higher at puberty in my opinion, and much less risky based on total blood volume. (I'd be interested in whether that can be verified.)
Cheers,
Gamaliel -
Narkissos
Gamaliel,
The religion of the Hebrew Bible is not the ancient religion of Israel. Many OT texts, starting with Deuteronomy and even more in post-exilic times, reflect a strong tendency to sweep anything smacking of "paganism" (e.g. fertility rituals) under the carpet. Some of the ancient practices and beliefs were rejected and explained away as "apostasy" (e.g., temple prostitution, high places, worhip of Ashera, etc.), while others were reinterpreted in a more "theological" way (e.g. the festivals which were once celebrations of natural cycles are reinterpreted in a "historical," i.e. cultural way: the spring festival becomes a remembrance of Exodus, the harvest festival celebrates the gift of the Law, etc.).
As for circumcision, there is much evidence both from Semitic languages and the Bible texts themselves (see the first page of this thread) that it was once a puberty / marriage ritual in Israel too. But it went through the process of reinterpretation -- for instance, instead of a fertility rite prealable to a marriage covenant, a covenant with God; and moving the practice up to infancy would (1) cover up the sexual overtones and (2) ensure that most, if not all Jewish males would actually be circumcised, which was certainly a problem when the practice vanished in the area (being "uncircumcised" was no longer a Philistine exception) and circumcision consequently became a specifically Jewish sign (cf. Joshua 5 which is actually a late text, or 1 Maccabees).
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peacefulpete
Its also suggested that in at least some cultural context the rite was symbolic of castration making the the offspring of the man children of the covenant deity.
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gumby
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/83540/1.ashx
"Jehovah Hates Foreskins!" thread......very informative!
Gumanteater
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FlyingHighNow
Of course we will always find Gumby irresistably drawn to a willie thread.
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gumby
I KNEW that was comin Flyin
Gumweiner
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FlyingHighNow
I won't touch THAT one with a 6 inch pole.