Do I need to be Readjusted in my thinking?

by enlightenedcynic 49 Replies latest watchtower scandals

• 

  Finally-Free

  I'm surprised they even mentioned the option of paying publishers™ interest. Any time we did renovations here they accepted only donations or interest free loans. The last hall I was in did a $125,000 renovation, and the amount astonished me, because I did much more extensive renovations on my home, and even paid a couple of contractors, and it still cost me less than $40,000. I'm sure a few elders are fixing up their own homes. I recall one renovation where they ordered more than twice as much wallpaper than what was needed. It was a patternless wallpaper, so there was no excuse for such a gross overestimation.

  I also thought it unfair that a congregation could donate to the kingdom hall building fund for 20 years or more, than be charged interest to borrow back their own money.

  W
• 

  Scully

  I would be interested in the answer to the question 'who owns the KH'?

  If it's owned by WTBTS, cost of refurbishment would be theirs, not the congregation's.

  And how is the loan/interest payments dealt with in WTBTS accounts?

  Up until the early-mid 80s, individual congregations built and financed their own Kingdom Halls. Sometimes two or three congregations would consolidate their funds and labour and build a single shared KH between them. Then around 1983, a new Simplified™ arrangement by the WTS was introduced, which would allow congregations to borrow money from the WTS in order to build or renovate KHs.

  The way the new Simplified™ arrangement worked was that the congregation was responsible for purchasing the land on which to build the KH. The WTS uses the property as collateral to secure a loan up to the amount paid for the property (this is not spelled out to the congregation). In other words, if you paid $100K for the land, the WTS would lend you $100K toward the building.

  So your KH gets built. Everyone is happy. The congregation is required to remit to the WTS a per publisher amount each month to cover the cost of the loan. This is where it starts to get tricky... because remember... the WTS has a Voluntary Donation™ policy, so they can't outright demand payment from each publisher. If the congregation doesn't have sufficient donations to cover their monthly mortgage requirement, the WTS can foreclose on the loan.... and they pwn the KH and the land upon which it sits. And here's the kicker... rather than forcing the congregation(s) to sell... they just charge RENT instead... at the same nominal per publisher rate as the mortgage payment. And the common publisher is none the wiser.

  It's also happened with congregations who wanted to renovate their existing KH (owned outright by the congregation). The congregation raises 50% of the money required for renovations, and the WTS loans the other 50%, using the property as collateral. If the congregation can't maintain the the payments once the renovations are complete... guess who pwns the KH?
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  Honesty

  I had the same questions that you have when our congregation 'needed' to renovate a 5 year-old brand new hall.

  I was labeled 'REBEL' for asking questions.
• 

  fullofdoubtnow

  It is such an obvious rip - off, buwe have come to expect that of the wts, haven't we?

  And in answer to uour post question. no you don't need to be readjusted in your thinking, you seem to be the only one who can see this for what it is,
• 

  AuldSoul

  Deuteronomy 23:20 You may charge a foreigner interest, but not a brother Israelite, so that the LORD your God may bless you in everything you put your hand to in the land you are entering to possess.

  Lovelylil,

  They would respond that they aren't charging interest of an Israelite, they are only charging interest to the alien residents. Only the 144,000 are Israelites.

  AuldSoul
• 

  lovelylil

  Auldsoul,

  thanks for letting me in on that information, you are right, I forgot their 144,000 are only spiritual Isrealites baloney. I keep reading the scriptures with the proper view and although out of the Org. only 2 years, their beliefs now are totally whacked to me.

  but I could swear I read WT articles before that said not to charge interest to your brothers and sisters and it applied to the other sheep. If anyone has the CD Rom, they can probably find a couple.

  This makes me so mad!!!!!! It is just another wieght on the shoulders of the unsuspecting congregation members who are so blinded, they can't ever see anything wrong with their "mother".

  To all you active JW lurkers out there who are not part of the 144,000 exclusive club: I hope this information is having an affect on your minds and hearts. You are worth nothing to the WT society and are totally dispensable at any time. If you are not giving enough of your time and money - your mother will boot you out of the house so fast, your head will spin. So, sad really.

  Imagine being alien residents in your own church?
• 

  juni

  Thanks Scully for your complete answer. I wasn't aware of all of the particulars. It's a win-win situation for the WT society
• 

  Joe Grundy

  Scully

  Thanks for the info. So as I understand it, each congregation should be preparing accounts/balance sheet.

  As far as WTS is concerned, a loan to a congregation should be regarded as a WTS asset. Interest payments would be receipts for a/cs purposes.

  If WTS forecloses, the value of the KH becomes a WTS asset, and the rents should be recorded as 'income'.

  Has anyone had a good look at WTBTS accounts, do we know?
• 

  BluesBrother

  What would the elders say if you discussed the possibility of raising a second mortgage on your home to carry out improvements and to make it more comfortable and 'nicer' ?

  Unless the place was in real disrepair, would they not warn you off, saying that it was materialistic to want a more comfortable environment ?

  What is the difference?

  My experience of these schemes are that elders get bees in their bonnet and have pet project that the congo has to be persuaded to join in with,
• 

  under_believer

  Unless the place was in real disrepair, would they not warn you off, saying that it was materialistic to want a more comfortable environment?

  BluesBrother, when our hall was last remodeled (circa 2003) several publisher raised that very question--they said that our hall was fine, we were being materialistic to want to upgrade it, let's send the money to build halls in Namibia, etc.

  They were told that today's sophisticated consumer in the US wouldn't respond to a building positively unless it was up to date. It was presented as a marketing thing--we want to give a good witness in the community, we want people who are studying to not be put off by an old building, it will mean better success in the ministry, etc. They even used a couple of recent Watchtower and Awake! covers that broke from the standard boring mold and were more interesting as examples that this was the way the Society was moving as a whole.