Extra training ... so you know that shooting babies is WRONG ?!? (page 13)

MsMcDucket

I have a problem with "all"... all women are... all men are... all americans are... all british are... all blacks are...

Gosh, you catch on quick!

OpenFireGlass

Amy Goodman, "Democracy Now": "The War and Peace Report" Independent Grass Roots Media/News

You can search the archives, and listen for free

Fleur

Is this thread dead? I hope I"m not bringing it back if it is, but when I saw this I gasped out loud:

FleamanUK said:

How many of you feel that we Americans got what we deserved on 9/11?
I was as appalled as anyone at the loss of innocent life..but one has to think what goes around comes around.

Oh my freaking god. You did not just suggest that innocent children like the ones on the flights that plowed into the buildings deserved to die, are you? What could be 'coming around' to them??? Sounds like a throwback to the whole Jehovah will destroy you if you sin and don't repent thing to me! What about the bus bombings last year in London, was that universal payback too? Did those people deserve to die in your country or were they simply innocent victims? I wonder if you'd be surprised that some of us filthy bloodthirsty Americans actually undertook specific charitable ventures after the London bombings to show how badly we felt. Yes, I mean me. I cried that day just like I cried as I watched the towers fall. It didn't matter to me where the crimes were happening. I was thinking of the people. So go ahead, lump us all together if you want. You don't know who you're talking about, people are people, no one deserves to die for religious intolerance, which is what 9/11 and the London bus/train bombings were all about if you boil it down. essie sorry I can't get the frigging highlighter to go off.

bisous

karma's a bitch people and unfortunately, our beloved USofA will most likely be meeting up with Ms. K more and more, especially if y'all (the 51% who voted for the moron) keep on your same path .... bwahahahhaaaaaaa.... so, it is nice to know some things don't change....one can be gone months and months, and come back here to JWD and find a lot of the same old rhetoric on every side.... kind of reassuring in a funny kind of way.... there's no place like home...there's no place like home....

Simon

The arguments work both ways though.

Did the people in the WTC or London Underground deserve to be bombed and killed because of the (supposed) actions of their leaders? No.

Did Iraqi's deserve to be invaded and killed because of the (supposed) actions of their leaders? No.

But, when it comes to treating everything at the country level then people will justify it at both levels. So, if you justify invading Iraq and bombing civilians etc. then it must follow that the bombing of WTC is justified too by the same arguments and citizens of a country will bear the brunt of what follows because of what the country does.

Personally, I think neither should happen.

AlanF

Simon said:

: Your own desire to misinterpret and distort what I say is proof of nothing and demonstrates that you are wrong - I did not say what you accused me of.

Really. Prove it. Blanket dismissals like this prove only one thing, but I'll leave you to figure out what that is.

: Isn't it time you threw your toys out the pram again and stormed off? It's your usual m.o.

Engaging in your usual, um, distortions again, I see.

I have to be real careful about using words that express the unadorned truth.

:: Understand my resentment? Or will you let pride keep blinding you?

: By "You" do you mean me personally, everyone else on the forum or everyone on the planet in general? You haven't been cery specific which is astonishing given what a fuss you made when I used "you".

You really take the cake, Simon.

Do you understand "you" in the above sentence and in this one, or must I explain?

: The thing is oh incredible one Alan, most people seem to understand and be able to comprehend who is being referred to without each sentence becoming some sort of online census of the population.

Really. You've ignored the fact that you've offended other posters with your ill-conceived remarks.

Why did you kill a million Irish in the 19th century? Why did you kill up to 100,000 Kenyans in the 1950s, including women and babies? Why did you kill tens of thousands of Indians and Afghanis over the course of several centuries? Why have you killed hundreds of Iraqis recently, including civilians, and tortured Iraqi prisoners? Why did you allow the Royal Warwickshire Regiment in 1940 to use dum-dum bullets against the Germans in violation of the Geneva Convention? Why did you kill thousands in the Boer War of 1899-1902 and even kill women and children in concentration camps? Why did you kill thousands in the Crimean War of 1854-1856? Why did you kill millions of people while establishing and maintaining your world empire? Why do you have laws that punish people who defend themselves against crime?

Would you like me to go on?

Would you like to defend yourself?

: I think you are just a nitpicker. And by "you" I mean the poster who uses the alias AlanF.

I think you are just a nit. . .

Naah, I'd best not say it, lest I get punished again.

: Funny, you seem to be more incensed at me expressing my feelings about this than you are over the actual thing itself - women, children and babies being murdered by undisciplined 'troops' and a government admitting it needs to train its soldiers specifically to know that this is a WRONG thing to do!

I don't usually get involved in political discussions, for obvious reasons. Just so you know, I'm pissed as hell at what happened, but this is not the proper forum to express it.

: I don't know why we are surprised at what American troops do though. After all, look what a knife edge American civilisation in general is!

Yeah, wow, that's so true! I just hate having to drive to work every day in my armored Hummer, with my wife riding shotgun with her AK-47! And I hate that when we go walking around the neighborhood, we usually have to kill two or three gradeschoolers who come at us with machetes!

: BTW: Alan. I think there are real similarities between the knee jerk and religious defense of a country and the conditioned response that people exhibit when they are JWs and the WTS is criticised.

True. But if you're trying to insinuate that my remarks to you are in any way a defense of baby-killing, or of the Bush administration, well, let me just say that you're way off base.

The fact that even now, after I've clearly expressed myself on these things, and you apparently refuse to see it, says a great deal.

: It's usually just the result of ignorance and lack of all the facts (through control of the media) and an unwillingness of people to even consider that the powers that be can be wrong.

True. Much like being a football/soccer fan who roots for the home team just because it's the home team.

AlanF

Simon

Your country has it's share of atrocities.

True.

The difference it seems between America and the rest of the world in general is that we have the confidence to be able to stand up and say "yes, we have done bad things. we shouldn't have. it's something we are ashamed of".

We don't think this diminishes us or is something that we should do and we don't take it as a personal issue.

Now, if we defended such behaviour, refused to admit it happened, squabbled to find other equally-bad examples to excuse it or generally bitched about people pointing it out then I think people would go on about it a lot more.

If you get a clue and hold your hands up and try and put pressure on your government not to keep doing things like that then people will not be as critical.

pepheuga

just dropped by to agree that "the rest of the world in general" (see the post from the rough diamond above) is not a ridiculous generalisation.

fleaman uk

Oh my freaking god. You did not just suggest that innocent children like the ones on the flights that plowed into the buildings deserved to die, are you? What could be 'coming around' to them??? Sounds like a throwback to the whole Jehovah will destroy you if you sin and don't repent thing to me! What about the bus bombings last year in London, was that universal payback too? Did those people deserve to die in your country or were they simply innocent victims? If you see my post it said how appalled i was at the WTC atrocities.Ditto the London Bombings.But whilst my Government ties itself to that fuckwit Bush im afraid this kind of thing will be a threat and all us innocent citizens will be targets. However my Country has no real power over anyone anymore (the sun set on our Empire a long time ago)wheras American policies over the last 15-20 years have contributed to many Countries woes.People werent going to take it forever..hence an attack on American soil.It did have a sense of inevitability to it.So i suggest that instead of dramatic,emotional outbursts ,you should possibly at least pretend to grasp a bigger picture.

unclebruce

AlanF
Your own desire to misinterpret and distort what I say is proof of nothing and demonstrates that you are wrong - I did not say what you accused me of.
So, apology please.

Jesus Simon - You've got to be f'n joking!! LOL Well let's see maybe Alan's evolved

Come on Alan, have the guts to admit you're wrong - the man's got you by the balls - caught red handed building an argument from a false premise. It's a fair cop - your emotions got the better of your brain cells - could happen to anyone.lol. I am a tad bemused by the extent of Simon's anti-americanism but grew up with a similar view.

:::

Alan's false premise layed bare for those who have (international) ears: A classic strawman/adhominem(sp) from false reasoning 101.

...... The title of your thread is:
"Extra training ... so you know that shooting babies is WRONG ?!?"
Just who is "you" here? Just the soldiers? Or all Americans? Since almost all American soldiers are Americans and are more or less raised with American values, your implication is clear: Americans are raised such that they don't know that shooting babies is wrong. ......

Alan darling, I've been following this thread with yawning interest, it's waxes and wanes from hairy chested tub thumping to the blind preaching to the deaf (eg: 9/11 is linked to the war for oil). Excuse my picking up the above. Perhap's you're right about Simon and he 's implying that all americans need to be taught basic human values but that allegation was not proved by your argument above.

cheers, Lee who worries about the warping of american values through sick slick neo-conservativemedia reporting.

Extra training ... so you know that shooting babies is WRONG ?!?

Share this