Extra training ... so you know that shooting babies is WRONG ?!?

by Simon 146 Replies latest social current

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  glitter

  Well there is that...
• 

  XJW4EVR

  On "atrocity" down, one more to go. Maybe you should wait for all the evidence to come out before you smear the the entire American armed forces for the actions of less than 1% of them.

  http://www.adelphia.net/news/read.php?id=12847220&ps=1012&lang=en&_LT=HOME_WLNWC01L1_UNEWS
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  Simon

  Understand my resentment? Or will you let pride keep blinding you?

  By "You" do you mean me personally, everyone else on the forum or everyone on the planet in general? You haven't been cery specific which is astonishing given what a fuss you made when I used "you".

  The thing is oh incredible one Alan, most people seem to understand and be able to comprehend who is being referred to without each sentence becoming some sort of online census of the population.

  I think you are just a nitpicker. And by "you" I mean the poster who uses the alias AlanF.

  Funny, you seem to be more incensed at me expressing my feelings about this than you are over the actual thing itself - women, children and babies being murdered by undisciplined 'troops' and a government admitting it needs to train its soldiers specifically to know that this is a WRONG thing to do!

  I don't know why we are surprised at what American troops do though. After all, look what a knife edge American civilisation in general is!
• 

  Simon

  BTW: Alan. I think there are real similarities between the knee jerk and religious defense of a country and the conditioned response that people exhibit when they are JWs and the WTS is criticised.

  It's usually just the result of ignorance and lack of all the facts (through control of the media) and an unwillingness of people to even consider that the powers that be can be wrong.

  Not everyone manages to free their minds.
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  mrsjones5

  After all, look what a knife edge American civilisation in general is!

  
  

  
  As I sit in suburba in my home office with my 2 year old opening and shutting the door, my washing machine in spin cycle in the next room, my husband dozing in bed, and my 3 older children downstairs watching Saturday cartoons in the tv, I really don't know why you think all of American civilisation lives on a knife edge. Yes there are some ruff sections of the country but it's not that way in America on the whole, not even in general.

  Josie
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  Simon

  I really don't know why you think all of American civilisation lives on a knife edge. Yes there are some ruff sections of the country but it's not that way in America on the whole, not even in general.

  It seems that there have been a few times that American society has shown that there is a very ugly side to it that can surface. eg. LA, New Orleans etc.

  BTW: I like being the Simon Cowell of the forum
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  Simon

  We have had riots in the UK as well of course, but never such a massive break-down in law and order and the general level of crime has, in general, been lower.
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  SixofNine

  S'truth. I don't bristle in the least when I hear someone say "dumb Americans", unless they are specifically criticising a belief that I hold.

  If you hadn't noticed, there are a hell of alot of dumb Americans out there (no, no more than any other country, but our stupidity f**ks the world more often, and with less lubrication). Look at how dramatically the American public's attitude has changed towards the occupation of Iraq in just the last two years. Did all these people suddenly get smart? No, they got hit upside the head with a 2x4 of reality. But that reality was in play much longer than two years ago.

  Look at how many idiots believe that "supporting the troops" means cheerleading even the ones who do bad (there are still people who will claim that the only thing done wrong in Vietnam was that there weren't enough My lai's), and cheerleading the civilian leadership who have demonstrably abused the very troops the yellow ribbon wearing chickenhawks claim to "support".

  Honestly, with friends like many Americans, our troops don't need enemies.
• 

  Abaddon

  SO... we all agree shooting babies is wrong, that soldiers everywhere have done terrible things, that those who are in charge should be held responsible for incompetence, deception or corruption, that most developed countries have done terrible things, Simon didn't explicitly say all Americans have those characteristics (gawd, defending Simon, geeeesh... ), that the omletet might have been a bit over-egged and some knees may have been jerked in consequence.. But hey, I think we can all understand someone being upset about something like this.

  So what the fuck are we disagreeing about other than ruffled feathers?

  What is interesting for me, is how we can stop it happening.

  By that I mean, how can we change the political structure so that politicians can not commit their countries of years of cost and death (and subject other countries to the same) unless there is a genuine majority in favour of the action because of the context it takes place in.

  Why not start voting on major issues so we don't get into this shit unless there's a clear majority? We shouldn't commit to war because a fraction of a percent more want it, war's not casual or free of risk. Two-thirds majority seem better.

  Modern technology means referanda will become progressively easy. There is no reason why people, in time, could not give up their vote for a politician in return for direct enfranchisement. Say a respresentative stood for 100,000 people; 100,000 peoples' votes would have the same value as one representative. You get a tax credit for participating equivalent to what portion of your taxes would normally pay for your representative.

  And if we are worried about the competence of those taking part... for pete's sake, look at our politicians... they are no better than us and sadly some seem to aspire to be the worst of us. We could get rid of thousands of the bastards!

  You could even come up with an upper house; 1/3 elected by direct vote every two years for a six year term. Anyone with x number of nominations can run, no paid-for advertising outside of Government run websites where coverage would be equal and impartial. A way of having a law looked at purely due to the votes of citizens (the Dutch have started something like that; get enough votes and the 2nd chamber will debate it). Dismantle the party system, or at least reduce it to a level where the aims of whatever groupings remain are more have to be more responsive to the voters. Get corporations out of government by making election contributions effectively impossible, even if they weren't banned or heavily controlled as they should be. This house could have a geographical basis for its constituencies.

  A vote is worth the same no matter how many $$'s someone has in their pocket; let's actually make that work in practise as well as theory.

  Although some politicians have been true statesmen, most are well intentioned parasites who could one day be replaced by people voting on a dozen issues a month; think how many laws get voted on each week. Effectively people would be running government departments directly; clear abstracts of laws and policies would be provided with cost benefit and impact analysis. It wopuld be a massive challenege to make it work, which is why a system that slowly replaces old-fashioned politicians is best, ramping up as those who feel able step up to the challenge.

  Although they wouldn't stop groups of people voting to do dreadful things, the current system doesn't either. At least with a direct voice in government those who are opposed would be place to stop it QUICK, rather than be stuck with the same bunch of lairs for a few years.

  Oh, this was an ad linked to from this page (Google I think);
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  Shining One

  Simon,
  Ignorance must be bliss. You blindly accept the accusations of any and all who would accuse America and Americans, don't you? They'll have a fair investigation and trial, then you can whine but not until. We have assumed innocense except in the military. You did't know that either, did you? We have to keep bailing out you weanies who think that peace is assured by negotiations. Bring on Neville Chamberlain! LOL
  I haven't heard you whine about Kofi Annan and his son taking bribes, or the Russians or the French. I guess that is not part of your agenda: 'America is evil' beats on your 'clanging symbol'.
  Rex