Not to nitpick, but there is some question as to whether Jeremiah was the author of ch. 52. Chapter 51 ends with the words "Here end the words of Jeremiah (51:64), and what follows in ch. 52 reproduces 2 Kings 24-25 with a few insertions.
Sorry, another 607 question? I'm confused.
by lost_light06 68 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
-
AuldSoul
Oh, no problem, Leolaia. Nitpick all you like. According to the WTS Jeremiah was also the writer of 2 Kings, so a JW should have no problem with my attribution.
*** si p. 69 Bible Book Number 12—2 Kings ***
Bible Book Number 12—2 Kings
Writer: Jeremiah
Places Written: Jerusalem and Egypt
Writing Completed: 580 B.C.E.
Time Covered: c. 920–580 B.C.E.I understand that the WT scholars are often wrong. Many here don't.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul -
Hellrider
The "seven times" prophecy starts with the beginning of exiles being taken to Babylon, which obviously happened when Jerusalem's destruction was finished. That's how we arrive at 607 a the correct date, because even historians acknowledge that the exile lasted 70 years and ended in 537.
Nope, you can`t do that. Scholar jw doesn`t understand that either. It puzzles me why noone understands that noone understands that. You can`t count back from 537 and arrive at 607! This is because 537 (or 539) aren`t pivotal dates! The WTS has announced these dates as "safe bets", they are the pivotal dates, and then you can count back 70 years. Nope, it doesn`t work that way! The dates 537 and 539 are not "pivotal dates", they are derived dates based on a chronology that sets the destruction of Jerusalem at around 587/586, the first attacks on jewish land to around 609, Nebuchadnezzars reign beginning in 605, etc. These (early) dates are more of "pivotal dates" than 539 and 537. And so, what does this mean, mathematically?... It means you have certain early "pivotal dates" from which you get a (later) derived date. And you can`t go back from the derived date to change the pivotal date!
Why can`t any of the JW-apologists understand that? It`s actually pretty simple...and I`m not even very good at math...
-
AuldSoul
...because even historians acknowledge that the exile lasted 70 years and ended in 537.
Source, please.
-
scholar
lost_light
Celebrated WT scholars base or begin biblical chronology with a pivotal date which is universally accepted for the Fall of Babylon in 539 BCE. Henceforth, it is determined that the Exiles returned to Judah in 537 BCE ending the foretold prophetic/historic period of seventy years which began with the destruction of Jerusalem and the major exile to Babylon in 607 BCE. This historic event saw the end of the Judean or Davidic monarchy thus ushering in Gentile Rulership foretold to last for seven times thus ending in 1914 CE.
In short, the overthrow of Jerusalem in 607 BCE is equated with the end of the Davidic Monarchy thus beginning the Gentile Times which were of a duration of 'seven times' ending in 1914. Such an overthrow with the end of Zedekiah would naturally represent a loss of sovereignty in respect of God's typical kingdom at Jerusalem. This is no new light but simply a matter of emphasis.
scholar JW
-
Narkissos
Exactly one hour late
And no misspelling (afaik).
-
Shazard
Is it me only or I am stupid. Why nobody see several very simple things.
1. When 70 years started and WHAT they were and WHY there were started. Bible tells it very clearly. Read 2 Kings 21:11-15, then read Jer 15:3-4 and 2 King 24:1-3 and 2 Chron 36:20-21. There is cleary stated when and why the punishment (70 years) started. And it was not for Jerusalem alone but for whole Land and neighboring countries. Read Jer 25:11
2. Please read whole Jeremia 29 chapter. Read very firsth sentence of the chapter. Jeremia is writing TO captured exiled Jews FROM Jerusalem (it is still standing) and he is writing to them "when 70 years will pass". So 70 years allready are being predicted BEFORE Jerusalem is destroyed. Ofcourse JW can't see it as they just don't believe what Bible says.
3. Jer 27:6-10 writes again about 70 years starting period. It is for desolation of whole land not only Jerusalem
4. Read several different translations of Daniel 9, the text speaks about Jerusalem being desolated DURING 70 years, or till end of 70year period. So Daniel 9 speaks about WHEN Jerusalem desolation(s) will end. And it is at the end of 70 year period. It does not says that Jerusalem itself will be desolated for 70 years. If there is (I don't believe) some JW who knows aramic, he can read original
5. Zach 1:12 again prooves that 70 years not for Jerusalem alone but for whole Judea.
6. And most mind blowing place where captivity and Jerusalem destruction are mentioned in one place is Ecehiel 40:1. There it is cleary stated that captivity began BEFORE Jerusalem destruction.
7. And Biblically no Jeremia and no prophet speaks that 70 years punishment period starsts or is somehow connected to destruction of Jerusalem. It allways and in every place is connected with begin of Nebucadnezzar reign, when Babilon became most powerfull force in the known world. All the Judea and neighboring countries was under him. And this is the 70 year period. It is pure invention of WT that 70 year period is somehow conencted with Jerusalem destruction. There is no word in Bible for such interpretation. -
XBEHERE
Theocrat,
I have said this to many a JW before on this site and I will say it to you. Contact the elders in your congregation and see if they will calmly and in a loving way allow you to explain why you read and post on this site. Forget all the dating and prophecy crap and lets see if these JWs will apply Jesus law of love with you, giving you the benefit of doubt without suspicion. Let us know how it all works out for you.
-
james_woods
While you are at it, see if you can get a simple factual answer (which has a clear historic reference source) - on:
What year did Nebuchadnezzar die?
Just a year date, and a credible source of the reference.
Thanks
-
scholar
Hellrider
The date 539 is considered by the celebrated WT scholars to be a pivotal date for the purposes of constructing a chronology for the biblical period and the date 537 is a derived date as with nearly all other dates for the OT including 607. If we use the Neo-Babylonian method there are also fixed astronomical dates or pivotal dates and then we use derived dates also with this method however the latter Babylonian system ignores the seventy years so our calculation is twenty years short of the mark from the derived 586/7 until the correct established date of 607.
scholar JW