National Healthcare for the USA

by sammielee24 348 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  donkey

  It's always interesting how everyone tries to fix a symptom vs a root cause.

  As long as we practice defensive medicine in the US (due to the threat of ever increasing malpractice) you can forget about brining down costs. Medicare and Social Security are in a funding hole. How can you expect to nationalize healthcare when we cant even afford nationalized healthcare for medicare recipients?

  Fix the causes, measure the results and then possibly one might be able to look at a better solution which is more inclusive. I terminated all healthcare for all my employees - why? Because it was too expensive. Force it on us in the form of nationalized healthcare and watch unemployment double overnight - outsourcing will soar like never before. Someone has to pay for it. The problem is so many fools think the governments money isn't their money.
• 

  LDH

  you limit your research to your own State.

  UH, NO, that was an 'example' of how insanely easy it is to search and find access to health care to those with no financial options.

  Regarding the emotion of your response, I don't give a shit what it was at the time of your post. It was downright rude to refer to a medical procedure as 'scraping my insides.' Dry wit doesn't excuse poor manners.

  How close do I work? 8 years ago I was the contracts manager (insurance) for a GYN practice in upstate NY. That was a lesson in how greedy DOCTORS are. I had to tell them things like, "NO OF COURSE you can't do that, it would be unethical." Pretty damn close. You only hear about the greed of the insurance companies.

  Never the greed of the hospitals and providers who want to hold the insurance companies hostage, especially if they are the only qualified provider in a certain geographic area.

  Lisa
• 

  LittleToe

  Lisa: You genuinely worked with doctors and still felt: "It was downright rude to refer to a medical procedure as 'scraping my insides.'"? Gawd you're hypersensitive and need to get over yourself. Why do you think they (medical staff) call it the scrape? That's hardly a medical term Further, the US isn't the only country with immigrant issues. Further myopia?? I concede that those who can work should work, though. IMHO social security should come with compulsory community service for those who are fit and able enough to contribute their labour. Donkey: Good point, well made.
• 

  donkey

  Well, it's apparent that SOMETHING has to be done and soon!!! It is absolutely ridiculous that the U.S. is unwilling or unable to pay for healthcare for it's own citizens!!! I'm at the point that I do agree that the government is going to have come up with a plan for the country. It's too expensive for the individuals and the doctors are complaining about their costs also. Almost all doctors are having to combine their practices just to make it worth their while...their chief complaint is the the liability insurance rates that have sky-rocketed, forcing many out of business or to look at other options.

  Ask the next question please...why have insurance costs sky rocketed? Hint: The end answer begins with an "L"
• 

  Rabbit

  So, who is against a National Health Care system ? And why ?

  So far, most seem to be either folks well off financially (good for them), well educated (good for them) and the few whose jobs provide health ins. (lucky for them). Everything seems to 'be going well' with them right now. I hope that continues.

  LDH, do you fear losing your job at the Health Insurance co., if a 'NHC' system is implemented here? Is that what fuels your constant anger and coldheartedness toward all who aren't in the same enviable lofty position as you have found yourself in ? Is is possible, because you did not "plan" on NHC ever becoming a reality that you might become a victim of "poor planning?"

  I ask this, because you've always blamed "poor planning" when people find themselves in bad situations.

  Oh, welcome back. I thought you said you were gone for good...

  So, who is for a National Health Care system ? And why ?

  Many, like myself have now experienced "unforeseen occurrences" we've had things happen to us that were not within our capabilities to control.

  Example: I have a friend in her 50's that was college educated, an RN, then went to school again and became a bank loan officer. She was secure, insured and well qualified. She developed a spinal problem, where her vertebrae and discs are deteriorating. She's had 4 major surgeries now from the front and the back. She had a long hard recovery and therapy. She used up all her sick leave and all vacation accumulated over the years. She was using her disability policy until it ran out. She wasn't getting paid anymore from work after being off for 6 months. They assured her "she had a job". Just a week before she went back to work...they told her that her 'position' had been eliminated at the company ! Now her COBRA insurance 'protection' has run out. It took almost a year to find another (much lower paying) job. With her age, 57, and after explaining the year and a half gap in her otherwise spotless employment history, no one wants to hire her. She finally moved off 300 miles away from friends and family for that job -- that does not offer insurance !

  Now, she called the other day and told me she's now having sciatic pain going down BOTH legs. She spent several hundred $$ out of pocket to a doctor for x-rays. Her degenerative bone disease is back and it's worse than before. She has no insurance, too young for Medicare, makes "too" much money to qualify for help, almost broke, cannot afford all the Rx's she needs...this is an awful situation she is in. She is a real live person, just one of over half the people in the US who don't have insurance.

  What will happen to her ? I care. I cannot understand how any of the folks here can say they "don't care" what happens to people in less fortunate situations. I think you've lost your humanity. That's a sad thing...I hope you find it again.

  Lastly, it seems like the vast majority of people who live in countries that DO provide NHC -- love it ! They admit to problems, but, most would never go back to "our" way. That to me is the best recommendation of all, go figure...people who actually have real life experience with a subject knowing 'the way things work'.

  Rabbit
• 

  donkey

  When Australia got its national health care I would have voted against it I inherantly shy against socialist policies by governments.

  Now i would absolutely support it in Australia as Ive mentioned before we pay one and a half percent of our income and that pays for excellent health care for everyone. The sort of numbers I see on here for health insurance are absolute robbery.

  When my wife went to hospital to give birth she got a privcate ward in a modern hospital, the best of care the first one being a ceasure the second natural. When checking out we signed a paper to say everything was payed by our one and a half percent yearly contribution. Mums also get 4 thousand per child to increase the birth rate. A problem in most western countries these days.

  You know what? If we had the same system as Australi does I would support it too. The problem ISN't Healthcare. The problem is LAWYERS. When we combine the lawyers into the mix healthcare costs sky rocket. Australia doesn't have that problem. As much as I disdain socialism I would support the system if the root causes were fixed at the same time. Unfortunately you will find (behind closed doors) that the lobbyists against a national healthcare system are the legal lobbies because they know we can't have it both ways. Cynical fool I am.
• 

  LDH

  LDH, do you fear losing your job at the Health Insurance co., if a 'NHC' system is implemented here? Is that what fuels your constant anger and coldheartedness toward all who aren't in the same enviable lofty position as you have found yourself in ? Is is possible, because you did not "plan" on NHC ever becoming a reality that you might become a victim of "poor planning?"

  LOL you are a hoot, rabbit. You must have a short term memory because you're very unclear on what it is I do.

  Enjoy National Healthcare, and enjoy the skyrocketing unemployment rate, and enjoy the rampant government waste. Oh wait, maybe you can show me one time we came in under projected budget for entitlement programs where politicians did not ask for more money?

  I have backups to my backups.

  I cannot understand how any of the folks here can say they "don't care" what happens to people in less fortunate situations. I think you've lost your humanity. That's a sad thing...I hope you find it again.

  I haven't seen where anyone said they 'don't care.' What I don't care for is a system that fixes only one leg on a totally rotted out chair. Oh goody, a stable leg.

  You genuinely worked with doctors and still felt: "It was downright rude to refer to a medical procedure as 'scraping my insides.'"?

  Spoken like a man. No Doctor with any scintilla of bedside manner would refer to it as that....leastaways over here. Perhaps that's why I prefer privatized healthcare.

  No one who advocates NHS can show one example of a single vendor program in this country coming under budget.

  I bet the Drs can't wait to get reimbursed under NHS! Oh Goody! The only vendor to the elderly decides to cut your reimbursement by 5%, and who can argue against it?

  Or maybe, you can help the elderly figure out how to deal with the doughnut hole in their RX plan. If you don't know what I'm talking about, it's probably because you've been visiting biased websites.

  Medicare for all? No thanks! I don't feel like waiting when I need my ass scraped!
• 

  sammielee24

  I terminated all healthcare for all my employees - why? Because it was too expensive. Force it on us in the form of nationalized healthcare and watch unemployment double overnight - outsourcing will soar like never before. Someone has to pay for it. The problem is so many fools think

  I'm not understanding why you think unemployment would double. You would not be obligated to pay for any employee health insurance - a national system does that for every person. This also means that people would have the freedom to accept other jobs regardless of the amount of or type of benefits they offer. Right now the biggest joke in the single womans world is (and it's not really a joke more of a criteria) forget the looks - ask him for proof of his health insurance. National healthcare is paid in part through employer health tax and employee taxes and the tax amounts are less than what employers and employees currently pay. Jobs are already at stake in companies that can no longer pay employee healthcare premiums and many are already lost because of it - jobs can be saved implementing a NHS simply because the drain on the employer will be lessened. Talks are already in the works in some of the biggest cities to force employers to provide health insurance for all employees - including part time employees - think about what that will do. At least with national healthcare, the employee would already be covered and he/she would be paying for that care through their taxes. That makes them accountable and responsible just like everyone else. The employer would not be bankrupt trying to find a way to fund the healthcare for all their employee's. swife.

  Quote from the House of Labor -

  Toyota is opening a new plant in Canada, bypassing southern states like Alabama and Mississippi which offered as much as $250 million in subsidies, in favor of Canada.

  Partly this is due to the embarassing fact that Toyota thinks the education system in those US states is so substandard. But a key difference in getting the Toyota plant was the taxpayer-funded health care system in Canada, which saves the company $4 to $5 per hour per worker.

  PS...I don't believe the education thing myself but the issue is the cost savings....
• 

  sammielee24

  The problem ISN't Healthcare. The problem is LAWYERS. When we combine the lawyers into the mix healthcare costs sky rocket. Australia doesn't have that problem. As much

  You are right - but millions should not be penalized because of one profession. This issue has been addressed in many of the reports and what has been noted is that the number of lawsuits in the USA exceeds that of any other country that has national healthcare. The belief or rationale is that the laws in all of those countries are different regarding this issue and the availability of service itself, reduces and/or eliminates the need for as many law suits. I'm not saying there are never any - but the numbers are extremely minimal by comparison. If I'm not mistaken, Bush has already passed or put in motion, limits on lawsuits from malpractice etc, so that issue will have cleared itself when national health care is implemented. swife.
• 

  restrangled

  I'm going to put in my 2 cents here as a former legal secratry for personal injury attorneys.

  I have read about 4 pages but no further.

  I will tell you where some major BS is in this system....as Follows:

  Lets say, you are in a car accident and your PIP-- (personal injury protection) covers 10,000 of your emergency room coverage with a $500 deductible. The ER based upon a car accident is going to ---bill your insurance comapny for full price. After that is used up........ There is a special phone number for attorneys to negotiate the price of your admittance and care. This was part of my job. Negotiating with the Major Hospitals, Doctors, chiros, and all others concerned....after the fact!

  Guess what, most hospitals would reduce their bill by 45 percent, doctors, xray firms, etc., would acutally drop the charges....and then you would see them the following week going to lunch with the attorneys.

  This my friends does not work for anyone uninsured. You are billed full price by all involved with no negotiating power.

  Those insured are paying a nice reduced rate despite their deductibles.

  The uninsured are raped and pillaged at anyones whim.....at inflated prices. No negotiating is discussed.

  Guess what, as an uninsured at this point, after paying in for years......I refuse to pay, ,,,,and I argue big time. Refuse to pay certain bills, and then......they they are dropped.

  any questions?

  Just ask....R. (amy)