The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible (page 37)

jayhawk1

Tinywitness, you don't need to teach AlanF that the days of creation in Genesis are not a literal 24 hours.

We already know each creative day in Genesis equals one year.

AuldSoul

thirdwitness: I guess it is not good enough for you to show you that every single prophecy of Daniel concludes with God's Kingdom or the Messiah's appearance.

<cough> Ahem...except for the "tree dream", of course. That one didn't end with the Messiah's appearance or God's Kingdom. It ended with Nebuchadnezzar having learned the lesson Daniel said God wanted him to learn.

And since you cannot show that every single prophecy of Daniel concludes with God's Kingdom or the Messiah's appearance (including the tree dream and the interpretation of the handwriting on the wall) it would be enough for me if you could show that, but it isn't enough for you to assert that.

As I said, your opinions are only as valid here as the support you can provide. So far, you are simply stacking assumptions to build a circumstantial case for the secondary WTS interpretation of Daniel 4, many of which assumptions have been proven wrong and several of which you yourself have contradicted.

Let me demonstrate how I know your case is circumstantial and assumptive. You stated that because the word "times" was used instead of "years" that something more than times must be meant. Then you appealed to Revelation 12, wherein "times" is also used, as a means of discerning how long a time is. Remember, you have already stated that using "times" instead of "years" must mean more than years. Don't forget that part.

Yet, on direct questioning regarding the usage of "times" instead of "years" in Revelation you stated that it could not mean more than 1,260 days in that case. Which would mean 3.5 "times" would equal less than 3.5 "years", which contradicts what you stated earlier; that the usage of "times" must mean more than years.

I doubt you will see the contradiction, or the mechanics of how your rampant assumptions and conjecturing led you to a contradiction in statement, but the lurkers might.

AuldSoul

hillary_step

AlanF,

Are you really that stupid? Or are you just a liar?

If I have him taped correctly he is both...in large measure.

HS

hillary_step

jayhawk,

Off topic I know and apologize. I love you to pieces and will smother you in kisses, but do us all a favor.....drop the giant fonts. They actually distract from your posts, and ThirdWitness may be a liar, but he is a sighted one.

Cheers - HS

jayhawk1

I now have another question that can be added to Hillary Step's list of unanswered questions I am sure.

Drumroll please...

How is it a day can be a day in one verse, a day can be a year in another verse, a day can be 1000 years in another verse, and a day can be an unknown amount of time in another verse?

And yes, I am still being serious when I ask this question.

jayhawk1

No problem Hillary, I'll back off the large print.

hillary_step

ThirdWitness,

Hillarystep, Sorry not interested in such a debate that is off topic.

Do you not ever tire of being so wrong?

You quote extensively in this thread from both Revelation and Daniel in defense of your Biblical interpretations which iin many ways go beyond what the WTS even suggest, yet you suggest my questions about this very subject are 'off topic'.

Your ignorance is beggining to hang out all over the place ThirdWitness.

Lurkers take note - ThirdWitness is incapable of answering on topic questions that punch serious holes in his theology.

HS

thirdwitness

AlanF said: I challenged you on this claim about "presence". Where is your response?

Again, "presence" is a wrong translation of parousia in Matthew 24:3. No modern scholars agree with the Watchtower Society on this translation. Furthermore, the Society's 1997 exposition on it is self-contradictory and misrepresents source references.

I did not answer because I figured you being the all wise all knowing Guru that you are already knew what parousia meant. I am a little shocked at you here saying that no modern scholars agree with the WTS translation. A quick google proves that to be an inaccurate statement. Not that it matters because just because the majority might believe something doesn't make it truth. For example, the Trinity.

Anyway notice just two quick simple sources:

wikipedia: The term Parousia, Greek for "appearance and subsequent presence with" (in the ancient world referring to official visits by royalty) is also used to describe this event.

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
ParousiaOne entry found for Parousia.
Main Entry: Par·ou·sia
Pronunciation: "pär-ü-'sE-&, p&-'rü-zE-&
Function: noun
Etymology: Greek, literally, presence, from paront-, parOn, present participle of pareinai to be present, from para- + einai to be

Also Young's Literal translation of the Bible reads: Tell us, when shall these be? and what [is] the sign of thy presence, and of the full end of the age?'

OOOps there's one Bible scholar that must agree with the new world translation.

Anyway, it doesn't disprove that 7 times were 2520 years beginning from the desolation of Jerusalem.

AlanF

thirdwitless wrote:

: Not interested in reteaching AlanF why Genesis days are not literally 24 hours. You should know this already if you were ever a JW. It is covered in WT publications numerous times.

I'm perfectly well aware that Genesis is wrong about the creative days. I'm equally well aware that the Watchtower Society's teaching that Exodus does not mean what it says proves that Jehovah's Witnesses pick and choose what they want to believe from the Bible. Your continued refusal to deal with this fact proves that you know I'm right.

Your continued refusal to deal with the fact that the Jews did not return in 537 B.C. also proves you know I'm right.

As for the presence--parousia thing, if you touch it, be forewarned that you're going to get your ass kicked bigtime, because I will prove beyond a shadow of doubt that the Society has deliberately lied about it. And we all know that lying to defend God brings his condemnation. I'm warning you in advance that I've baited the hook, and you're about to bite down hard. Happy wiggling!

AlanF

Ah, thirdwitless, I'm glad that you responded so predictably and have indeed bitten down on my bait. Now you're going to have your teeth ripped out.

AlanF

The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

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